Anyone here tried, or currently play a valved harp? Ive got one that should be coming in the mail in a few days, Suzuki MR350V, a Promaster in C, I believe...
Curiosity, if nothing else, is whats drawn me to it, and that some of the finest music Ive heard from the harp was made by a harp w valves.
anyway, i look forward to trying er out...and if i can find a way to make it sing, ill post a vid.
I've tried half-valving. It was on a low low harp and it did help with air flow, but the typical valve problems bugged me. I think to really have given it a fair chance I would have needed two otherwise identical harps, one valved, to compare.
the promaster, to me, looks most similar to a golden melody, as far as how it looks like it'd feel in the mouth...regardless, I hope it opens up a new door for possibilities during my weekend jams with the boys... ---------- Kyzer's Travels
I play a valved Promaster in A, and have ordered one in C, which I'm waiting for. I don't have any problem with the valves, maybe a tiny clicking that doesn't bother me. It's a fine harp, very responsive, and I like the way the blow notes sound. After a few weeks playing that harp, the only "problem" I found is : it doesn't sound naturally "bluesy", maybe because the tuning is different from a MB's. I find the chords are not as "warm" as on other harps. It's more a harp for playing "clean", single notes and melodies.
Of course, the big advantage of the valved diatonic is the hability to draw bend and blow bend in all the holes.
I play valved diatonics. I use Seydel 1847s and valve them myself. I could not play without them now because first of all it allows me to fill in the missing notes by blow bending holes 2,5,and 6. And draw bending holes 7,8 and 10. Secondly the valves also allow shading of all the notes which increases the emotional content of what we like best about the diatonic: the juicy bends. Examples can be heard at: gazell
---------- "Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2010 4:03 AM
Yo Kyzer the Pro master is very ergonomic great feel in the mouth easy to play' but i found the Holes long and thin much narrower than other Harps Hohner SP20's or Lee Oskars,
and there was a milli second delay when playing tunes, go to play a note and wait a milli second for it to sound sort of a slight stall you would say befor the sound comes out,
I couldn't get used to the noise of the valves clicking every time they opend or closed, and the Aluminum comb and Stainless Seel reed plates made the Harp very Bright,
i did as other Bro's did and pulled the plastic valves of they played better but couldn't get used to the Bright sound,
i kept those harps for about 4 years i pulled them out every now and then but quickly retired them back to the top draw,
i just couldn't get used to the smaller holes on the harp or bright sound, and when i switched to Tongue Blocking the comb Hurt my Tongue i eventuly sold them,
Yo Keyzer but don't let my opinions turn your new experience into a :/ bad one Bro, you may just love them give it a go Bro let us Know what you think.
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2010 3:58 AM
I too had a Promaster Valved, an early one, I think. The only thing externally that differentiated it from a Promaster was a cheapie gold sticker that said 'Valved' on the front of the comb(and on there crooked to boot!). The acheivable bends were kind of cool, but the annoyance created by the valves outweighed the benefits. I recently traded mine for some more usable stuff. The guy who got it opened it up(I never did), and the valves were not only cut crooked, but not even on straight! The lack of quality on a suzuki product was surprising. Those valves are now history, and it's a straight-up Promaster.
Using a valved diatonic has many of the things associated with playing a chromatic in that they don't respond well to being played really hard and the valves going bad. It's important to have really good breath control with those because if played too hard, not only does the note blank out, but the saliva and layers of dead skin tends to clog up both the reeds and the valves on them as well and mos tdiatonic players tend to play too hard on these harps to get the most out of them.
The Promasters are all tuned to ET tuning. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I valved a spec 20, and I like it. Playing valved is a technique that you have to learn, get used to, and then cultivate. Guys like PT and Brendan Power do it so well that you feel humbled listening to them, but they prove that it CAN be done. It takes a totally different attack on the notes, both blow AND draw to get them to sound really good. You'll never get that breathy regular diatonic sound because the air flow in these harps is quite different. It took me two days to start getting my first valved bends (they are deceptively harder than you think), but you (Kyzer) ought to be able to do them faster (since you seem to be a quick learner! ;) ). You WILL have issues with the valves over time, but this can be mediated a bit by choosing a suitable valve material, and making them yourself. PT and Brendan both use a microfiber material called ultrasuede (I'm sure PT can expand a bit more than me), and there is tons of info on how to do it both in the archives here on Harp-l and on Slidemiester.
I should also say that you can't overblow on half-valved harps, so if OB is part of your style, you are going to feel frustrated at first. But, the note you achieve on an OB will be available on an adjacent hole's valved bend. You have to get used to going there instead of the OB.
One thing I'm exploring is only valving the 2 blow and the 8 and 10 draw. This let's you get that missing note down low that you'd normally have to get by OBing the 1 (which I find impossible, and especially so on low harps), and get the missing notes up high that you'd normally get using the overdraws (which I also find really difficult/impossible to do), while still letting me use my normal OB on the 4, 5, and 6 (which I've got down pretty well).
Isaacullah, learning to use a totally different technique with a valved diatonic is absolutely smack dead on the money and I found that playing it more like the way a chromatic is played, using a lot less breath force and sort of easing your way into the valved bends and even the non valved bends is the way to go, and because too many players are unwilling/unable to adapt and refine their playing technique, they're usually gonna fail with them because it's far too often the "one size fits all approach," which is VERY wrong.
Once you valve any diatonic, you can forget overblows, but with the valves giving you those extra bends, overblows are almost unneeded.
Mankycodpiece, I'll bet money on it that you played them way too hard and on the non valved bends, they choked and blanked out on you and that's why breath control, mainly control of the overall breath force is so important, especially with both chromatics and valved diatonics. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Firstly, I'd like to thank Rockin' Ron for the super speedy delivery, I ordered it early Monday morning, and it arrived from CA to TN this afternoon. Wow Ron.
After consulting a good friend who's familiar with valves, and after tinkering with it tonight for a few hours, I clearly see the differences you guys speak of. (playing it differently than my others) However: I dont see me ripping the valves off of this one. I think it's something I can get used to.
Overblowing part of my style? No, I can pop the 6 out fairly easy on any harp, but havent incorporated it into my playing at all. PT did this song below, which is what got me wanting the damn thing in the first place. I aspire to do this:
---------- Kyzer's Travels
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2010 8:59 PM
Amazing!! He sounds like Benny Goodman! (I'd bet Goodman influenced him.) This video would make a good example in that thread about a harmonica sounding like other indtruments.
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2010 10:15 PM
