|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
To be or not to be (a band leader)
To be or not to be (a band leader)
Page:
1
harmonicanick
656 posts
Mar 10, 2010
2:45 PM
|
God what a difficult subject for those in the know..
All the angst of command and all the let down of never quite making it..
The band is ok but just ok..it comes down to the lowest common demonitator..
Is it a jam band with 'who gives a f'' the attitude or is there somone who can lead them, through the shit to whatever..
Everyone is playing in 3 or 4 bands (no money) but so everything is diluted..what to do
The last gig was good but the promoter who was there incognito said the rythym section sucked so no top line gigs..
Sack em' all or just jam forever.....
|
barbequebob
582 posts
Mar 10, 2010
2:58 PM
|
Let me tell it to you straight from a pro. No matter how good the lead guys are, if the rhythm section sucks, the band sucks no matter what, and when you put together a band, ALWAYS start with a good rhythm section FIRST?? Why?? A good rhythm section will always have the time straight, the groove happening, and can hide weaknesses of the lead guys, but a bad rhythm section will quickly expose any and ALL warts the lead guys have very quickly.
Now right off the bat, the solos of the rhythm section are THE LEAST IMPORTANT THING because it's the groove that's FAAAAAAAR more important than the solos.
Good rhythm sectiona keep crowds dancing, tapping their feet, etc., and bad rhythm sections will quickly screw a band up so badly that the audience will empty out in a hurry no matter how good the lead players are.
Trust me, everything I'm telling you is 100% the cold, hard, brutal truth and not one sentence is total BS at all, and what the promoter was telling you is the truth because what he heard for a rhythm section was the kind of rank amateur BS you can find in ANY open jam any day or night of the week and on a pro level, that is the kiss of death.
As a bandleader, it is YOUR job to know exactly what you want 24/7 and NEVER be willing to put up with any BS that's far below standards because right off the bat, it's your ass on the line and your reputation that's getting hurt.
This may be tough love, but I assure you that nothing I've said is a bunch of BS at all, and it's all from experience on a pro level.
As a bandleader, you HAVE to be VERY together and very on top of things 24/7 and anything less than that is totally unacceptable and if it means firing friends or relatives in order to have what you need, you gotta grow some thick skin and deal with it all head on and don't be wishy-washy about it. You HAVE to take firm control of things or it's always gonna be a complete mess, and that's no ifs, ands, or buts on that.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
congaron
651 posts
Mar 10, 2010
3:54 PM
|
This a a very timely thread. Our band leader is calling a meeting to do just what Bob is talking about. We are blessed with a rhythm section that is rock solid. Where we fall is in dedication of the Lead singer. He also is in the band name. Over time, he has become somewhat of a prima dona who wants to simply show up and sing. On time makes no difference, missing the lyrics is frequent, staying for the whole practice is not important, and yet he wants people to pay us. There are hard questions to ask and the band leader has to insist each member answer them honestly without just giving the "pat" answers. The most basic question seems so obvious, but our band has to address it again. Is anybody too busy to be in a gigging band? If so, admit it and give the rest of the band a break. One guy not on board can shipwreck your schedule. This just happened to us when the lead singer insisted on a 3 month personal hiatus and we foolishly didn't replace him. We practiced, but no gigs and no singer. Now our spring momentum is gone. It will take a huge commitment and effort to get the summer back on track.
Yeah...feelin' your pain, Nick.
|
waltertore
255 posts
Mar 10, 2010
4:58 PM
|
this is why I have gone to being a 1 man band. Guys that have a name and buy hired guns get a solid beat behind them, but often those guys are not anywhere near as passionate as the leader is about his music. As long as he pays they play. To find a band where all are pretty much on the same page is rare, and if it does happen, it probably won't last long. What usually happens with most bands that come together out of the want to play with others and results in tensions and soap operas are the result of:
*basic commit differences top the chart
*differences in how many gigs each member is willing to do a month
*distance willing to travel
*set list
*amount of pay
*how late are they willing to play
*will they play weeknights
*volume levels
*frontman or collective band
*arrangements
*how to split the money
*how high or straight to be and play
*how to dress
*what kind of tones on guitars, harps - old school, rock blues, or some other variations.
*how to delegate the bookings responsibilities
I think I hit on most of the big points. I have had over 100 drummers and 30 bass players from my trio days. When I was a 4 piece, with a guitar player and me just on harp, I went through about 50 of them. I am glad those days are over. Being a frontman with hired guns, or a collective band usually ends in bad vibes amoungst the members. My reccomendation is become a 1 man band. The amount of time up front to figure it out is huge, but like the tourtise and the hare fable, you will be way out in front before you know it :-) Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2010 5:01 PM
|
Jim Rumbaugh
171 posts
Mar 10, 2010
6:40 PM
|
I have played with the same leader for 30+ years. He is a LEADER. There was a time when he would say to the audience,"I want you all to meet the band", and that's when I would meet the band. I know that if I should leave, he will still be gigging, because he can get another bass player, just like Walter said above. The leader IS the band and can get find musicians that can step up to get the job done.
But the leader, also books the band, pays the band, calls the tunes, may even set up the equipment, etc, etc. The leader can keep the tunes going, and can explain to the guys what to play, or lay down the charts for the guys to play.
The leader gets a leaders cut of the money. The others can't complain if it's 2, 3 , or 4 times what they get, as long as they are getting a fair wage for their service.
It's not easy being the leader, but it can have it's rewards. I am not a leader.
|
wheezer
153 posts
Mar 10, 2010
7:01 PM
|
Barbequebob is absolutely right. Problem is the punters never appreciate the rhythm section. they go mad for someone performing fret masturbation but you never hear spontaneous applause for a rhythm section that stays in the pocket all night, it's just the nature of the beast.
Look on Youtube at James Harman at The Buddy Guy Club
performing I Got News For You or Studebaker John & The Hawks doing Boogie Walk. In both cases bass, drums AND
guitar are just soooo tight.
One thing though, you can have the tightest band in the world but if the vocals are off the average punter think the whole band is no good.
|
Buddha
1480 posts
Mar 10, 2010
7:07 PM
|
if you're seasoned enough, leading a band is the way to go. You pick most of the songs and where and when you play. When you lead a band it's about YOU and furthering your artisty so keep the guys in the band happy. It's a lot of work and sometimes it might mean you play for free and pay the other band mates out of your pocket but that also means you might score a $3000+ gig, you pay each $250 and you keep the rest.
A someone said above, a good rhythm section is key. When I start bands, I always "partner" with a great bass player. I don't mean good or a guy that can keep the beat, I mean GREAT bassist. Get the best that you can find. Tell the bassist to find his own drummer as they always know what they like.
You also have to know what kind of artist you are. You'll never find me touring with a blues band just like you won't find me with a bebop band. I'm into soul, r&b, jazz etc... that's my comfort zone and where I sound best.
I haven't done this yet, but if you can, go take some stand up comedy lessons so you can learn to control a room. This has been suggested to me from some of the best musicians in the world and I plan to do it when I can.
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
Buddha
1481 posts
Mar 10, 2010
7:09 PM
|
"One thing though, you can have the tightest band in the world but if the vocals are off the average punter think the whole band is no good."
Not true. Look at Jason Ricci's band. He's not a great vocalist but has one of best bands I've ever heard.
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
nacoran
1391 posts
Mar 10, 2010
8:18 PM
|
I like Jason's vocals, but vocals can really be a matter of taste.
----------
Nate
Facebook
|
jbone
289 posts
Mar 10, 2010
8:34 PM
|
jason is one of the current great harp guys. that makes up for any lack in the vocal dept imho.
the reasons listed above are why i favor either a duo thing or basically being a hired gun player. i do love being a part of a cohesive band, but sometimes i feel like the lone ranger. last couple gigs it was me and the bass player setting up and tearing down the p.a. i can't stand around and let one member do all the extra work.
as far as leading, i do pretty well on stage for a guy with no musical schooling, provided either the members are real sharp or we can rehearse a couple time a month at least. but getting through all the drama of scheduling, booking, keeping guys together- for what we make around here, it's not really worth a big effort is how i feel. hence the duo thing. i know where my partner is 99% of the time, we go to gigs together, practice frequently, we're definitely on the same page, and the $ all comes home with us. my wife is a great music partner.
i didn't even get started in all this until i was in my late 30's, and she was in her late 50's when she took on the task of learning to play guitar, sing, and write material. she also books gigs alongside me. even with the maturity that comes with a bit of living, we both really despise doing promo stuff. handing off promo packs and knowing that most of them- at about $6 to $10 a pop- will be discarded without even getting a once-over, not having any decent promoters or agents who are willing to represent us, it makes it unsavory. add to that the time spent making new connections and trying to keep the ball rolling and it's a big investment even for a duo.
in past bands i've been part of, we ALL booked where we could and went for good enough pay to make it worth it to the band to come out. we all also got one "freebie" a year- meaning the band agreed that we'd all do one event for any member who wanted one, say a fundraiser for a volunteer fire dept or a charity gig or family picnic. those were sometimes the best gigs.
working in a band is a team effort in a lot of ways but it's absolutely true, the ones that succeed have a visionary or at least a diplomatic, charismatic, and firm leader at the helm.
|
Greg Heumann
355 posts
Mar 10, 2010
8:57 PM
|
Band leading requires many skills above and beyond great musicianship.
To answer your "to be or not to be" - you must decide if you're good at leading, at sales and marketing, managing people, etc - and WANT to do that part of the job. Totally agree with Bob and Jim.
And Walter's list? Its the truth. We actually spoke about all that stuff when we FORMED the band. Unless you plan to be good enough, and gig enough - to pay your band enough for them to make a living, you have to find guys who are not just musically, but also geographically, emotionally, financially, temperamentally compatible. It ain't easy.
----------
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
|
XHarp
279 posts
Mar 11, 2010
6:09 AM
|
Harmonicanick, If you're asking the question, "Sack em' all or just jam forever....." I say Sack 'em all.
Why would you compromise your desires to do more for the sake of a band that's not going where you want to go? You will likely be doing them all a favour if you disband the thing.
Now, I'm no pro, like others here but, I did it. Left the band. I'm in a better place now doing my own thing following my path and they are still in the basement struggling with their path but we are all happy with the current place we are in. Much better.
Do It !!!!
When you do set to a new band, make sure you follow BBQ's advice. Tight rythym section... very critical but don't sacrifice on the lead section either. They need to be able to follow and play off of the rythym section. You, and the audience, will know it if they can't.
If you want to know about a tight band... read anything you can from the people in the Wolf's band, or in Muddy's band. ( I can imagine Jimmy was the same BBQ but I'll leave that to you to tell us about) They were band leaders not willing to compromise the groove and holding the leads tight to their place in the song.
Lots of work but hey, it's your rewards.
----------
"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2010 6:14 AM
|
bigd
53 posts
Mar 11, 2010
6:13 AM
|
A few more observations: (A) If you hang out at blues jams, get to know the talented musicians, and then get them home to start up a blues band you might find out that (outside of the blues jam context) they are not very partial to blues at all, i.e., a lot of musicians go to blues jams just to get their "15 minutes" and play blues because of the context rather than an organic urge to do so. And (B) if you have a friend who is a talented musician and you invite him or her into a band experience you might find their personality changes thereby straining the friendship. Our creative voices can be loud sometimes!..... When Rod Piazza was asked some years ago how he kept together such a terrific band (his rhythm section and jump guitarist selection has always had an audience galvanizing verve) he responded: "You gotta pay em well". Personally I'm lucky to play with who I get to play with in band situations because I have a club in Manhattan that is very supportive as are it's owners (Ashford & Simpson). That's a carrot in a competitive environment like NYC for the musicians that populate my band. And carrots are good for you. My best. d
----------
Myspace: dennis moriarty
|
toddlgreene
1007 posts
Mar 11, 2010
6:36 AM
|
I've recently been saddled with being the 'leader'of a new band(and they also insisted it be my namesake), after always being a team member or sit-in guy for 20 years, and it's challenging. I'm the first to admit I'm not the most knowlegeable guy on the bandstand, and I rely on the strengths of others, so I hesistate to call myself the leader beyond being the guy who interacts with the crowd and makes the set lists(and it looks like I'm booking gigs, too!) and helps to arrange beginnings/endings of songs, and changes to song structure as need be. BUT, I do know what I do and don't want to hear as a final product.
I'm fortunate to have fallen into a band with a tight rhythm section that reads each other well, and all three guys know what playing with dynamics and proper stage volume means. So, I might be the guy they call the leader, but I still feel like more of a team member, since the band more or less holds their own. I don't think I could handle having to do all the thinking for the other players. In my particular situation, which is still developing, being a leader is kinda cool.
One thing that's important to note in any band situation, though, is that it's hard for more than one Alpha Dog to coexist in a band. If someone possesses that kind of mentality in a band and a they are NOT in charge, either they will never be happy, or butt heads with the leader. It's hard to lead when no one wants to follow! I'm in an another band that has 4 such Alphas(although I do my best to suppress my tendencies), and it often gets miserable.
----------
Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2010 7:06 AM
|
barbequebob
590 posts
Mar 11, 2010
11:55 AM
|
From an old pro in my early years, I was taught this: if you're willing to put up with bull crap, that's what you're gonna get stuck with for the rest of your life. Yep, that means you do have to have high standards if you're gonna do anything pro and the stuff that's acceptable in 99% of open jams is NEVER acceptable on a pro level and much of that BS is gonna be grounds for firing people.
As the bandleader, it is YOUR job to know every single part of every single tune and demand it be done as such, no excuses are acceptable. You also need to know the business end of things, as you're also wearing the hats of both a business manager and even a human resource guy as well. If something gets messed up by one of your band members, as the bandleader, you can't pass the buck because it will always be YOUR fault for allowing things to happen, just like if you were in a regular day job.
As that same pro once told me: "somebody's got to be the a** h**e that keeps everybody in line," and that is a VERY TRUE STATEMENT. You cannot afford to tolerate BS in any way, shape or form. What's fine in open jams will hurt you on a pro level, and that is no BS at all, and I know this for a fact from just sheer experience.
Running a band as a democracy is 99% of the time an ingredient for nearly instant failure because someone has to make final decisons and in a democracy, all himming and hawing rarely ever gets anything done.
Bandleaders of the old school like Buddy Rich and Albert King were known to be bastards, but for good reason, and that they didn't tolerate crap of any sort at all, and musicians can sometimes be like little kids that are totally irresponsible and your time is valuable as a leader and you cannot afford to baby sit them.
Those old school types, especially the black bandleaders as well as the white big band jazz bandleaders were notoriously tough and iron fisted for a good reason, they would never tolerate bull crap and in every black band I've worked in, the first hired and first fired in this order were drummers and bass players because if the groove is a mess, the band is a mess, and I've seen Albert King personally fire his drummer on the very first tune of the night because the drummer dropped a beat, which is a cardinal sin as a pro (what the fool didn't know was that Albert started out professionally as a drummer first and was a good one and so it was too easy for him to catch that clam).
It may make you look ruthless or an a** h**le, but it tells other musicians you won't tolerate any BS, and you're more likely gonna have better musicians come around to you because you won't tolerate crap of any sort.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2010 7:03 PM
|
Joe_L
77 posts
Mar 11, 2010
1:48 PM
|
A friend of mine used to work with Albert. He said that Albert had a reputation for being a difficult guy, but he said that he was a great guy who didn't put up with shenanigans. If a musician did what was expected of him, Albert had no problems with them. Unfortunately, a lot of guys were knuckleheads that would screw up which would set Albert off. He was a guy that expected the best and expected to deliver the best performance every time out.
As a consumer of his craft, you've gotta appreciate and dig a work ethic like that. One of the best shows I ever saw was Albert King, BB King and Bobby Bland (w/ Wayne Bennett) on the same bill. When he tore into, "I'll Play The Blues For You", he blew the roof off the place. I thought Albert smoked the rest of them. I felt sorry for BB and Bobby.
|
Joe_L
78 posts
Mar 11, 2010
3:24 PM
|
I would suggest leading. I started doing it a while ago out of necessity. The biggest benefit is that you get to play what you want to play. I wish I had started doing years ago.
|
Diggsblues
214 posts
Mar 11, 2010
4:01 PM
|
Funny story. When I first did Big River at the Walnut st.
Theater in Philly I was told by the producer the most important thing was to show up on time. The producer was from L A.
He told me he knew this great guitar player in L A. The guitar player was doing theater in
L A and was always late. I asked him who was the guitar player? He said Jimmy Bruno. I told him I knew Jimmy and that he was living back in Philly.
He said, "oh tell Jimmy to give me a call I'll get
him free tickets for show. LOL
|
Post a Message
|
