Greg Heumann
607 posts
Jul 01, 2010
10:58 AM
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Musician's Friend is selling the "JT30 Roadhouse" mic for $69.99. MSRP was $149, their normal price was $99.99.
This tells you two things - first, it isn't selling well. Second, that is a steal for a brand new JT30-style shell with a screw-on connector and built in volume control. You can buy this mic and get to work, when you have a little dough replace it with a better element - and you will have built a very good mic very cheap.
The URL for this mic is http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Astatic-by-Hohner-JT30-Roadhouse-Harmonica-Microphone?sku=271320 - it still shows as $99.99 on their web site but their July catalog says 69.99.
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/Greg
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toddlgreene
1505 posts
Jul 01, 2010
11:03 AM
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Thanks for the heads-up on this, Greg! I recently was asked by a club member about a cheap way to get into bullet mics without buying garbage-this is a good answer. Sorry I didn't end up attending HCH;I really wanted to make your acquaintance face-to-face.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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Joe_L
417 posts
Jul 01, 2010
11:19 AM
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Greg - I own one of those mics. I paid $49.99 at Musicians Friend last year. It's pretty much the same as a Blues Blaster, but with a different connector.
It's pretty usable out of the box. It's got a foam biscuit between the element and the grill. It helps to reject feedback and kill off some of the brightness of the Kobitone element.
The connector on it is similar to a Switchcraft screw on connector. You can screw the 1/4" adapter on it, but it doesn't have the same feel as a Switchcraft connector, i.e. it feels cheap. If I was going to swap elements, I would probably want a Switchcraft connector put on it, too.
The good news is that it came with a cable.
If a person can play, it's not a horrible choice. It sounds pretty good through my tweed Champ. It's definitely worth $70.
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2010 11:20 AM
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toddlgreene
1507 posts
Jul 01, 2010
11:30 AM
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I just think it's a good deal and not necessarily money wasted to get a JT30 shell mic that is playable NOW, even if not the optimal setup. Like Joe-l says, ugrade the element/connector later if so desired.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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Joe_L
418 posts
Jul 01, 2010
2:14 PM
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@Todd - I've owned it for about a year. I used it for a couple of months pretty regularly at a jam. I let several players use it. Not one person ever complained about it.
I should try it out with the Lone Wolf Harp Tone+ pedal a bit. I was really happy with the results of that pedal with the Shure 520DX.
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toddlgreene
1510 posts
Jul 01, 2010
2:17 PM
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Joe-yeah, the LW tone+ is a sweet pedal. It'll fatten up anything that needs fattening. I don't have it, but I've tried it out at Randy Landry's house. I have the octave which can do some of the same, but with not as good results to my ear.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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rharley5652
173 posts
Jul 01, 2010
2:37 PM
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JT30-Roadhouse is the Bluesblaster same -same,.@ 70 bucks a good price.
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
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Jim Harris
19 posts
Jul 01, 2010
3:56 PM
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I got a great deal on the Blues Blaster (under $50) a few weeks ago. Is there a simple fix for this to make it a quality mic? I get way too much feedback out of it compared to an Audio Technica M4000S. Thanks.
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LittleJoeSamson
325 posts
Jul 01, 2010
6:00 PM
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I have a Blues Blaster that was given to me, and other than the cool look, have never liked it. I've tried it with various rigs, and it always sounds unresponsive and flabby. I even took out the foam between the grill and the element. No diff.
BUT...$70 is not bad for a sharp looking starter mic.
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Joe_L
419 posts
Jul 01, 2010
7:32 PM
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Recorded this through a JT30 Roadhouse and a tweed Champ. Both are not known for delivering good tone. Please take that into consider before passing judgement.
JT30 Roadhouse Test
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Greg Heumann
608 posts
Jul 01, 2010
9:16 PM
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Joe's clip sounds great. I know Joe and I've heard him play. His tone comes first and foremost from within. He also has very good cupping technique. And it goes to show you can get good tone with this mic. If Joe was able to A/B the same licks through the same amp between this mic and one with an MC-151 crystal, or Shure CM - we might hear differences - but what I hear ain't bad.
@rharley - not exactly the same as the blues blaster, which has an XLR connector whereas this one has a screw-on connector.
@Jim - I'm going to hazard a guess here, that you are using the same cable to connect the BluesBlaster and the AT mic. Am I right? If so, then you're only getting half of the AT's output and that's why it feeds back less.
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/Greg
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Jim Harris
22 posts
Jul 01, 2010
10:13 PM
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Greg -- I bought separate cables for the ATs -- they don't produce any sound from the BB, although they are the three pin to 1/4" type. They are heavier gauge than the one from the BB. The BB cable does work on the ATs, but has more noise and distortion(not feedback). The ATs are louder even with the BB cable, but even louder with the new cables:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330446005472&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
I can crank up the 75W amp to about 3/4 of max with the ATs and new cables, but the BB only about 2/5 before it squeals and shrieks.
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2010 10:16 PM
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rharley5652
174 posts
Jul 01, 2010
11:39 PM
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@ Jim,.
I don't think the cable is the problem,.I believe it's the cheap element they put in the Bluesblaster ,click on my link below an listen to Giles King Blowin through my build Memphis Blood,.as he says it was a kinda Bluesblaster,...
@ Greg,.didn't notice the connector,..it was the VC Knob that told me it was a Bluesblaster repop,.ya think they'd change to a different Knob,.LOL
all in all it's still a good buy ,.drop in a CM an ya have a great harp mic.
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
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chromaticblues
148 posts
Jul 02, 2010
8:45 AM
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I think I still have some old element from the campany thet made astatic mics. It was conniat industries in Ohio. I know I didn't spell the name of the compny right. I don't remember. Anyway I bought a Blus blaster in 88" and did not like the clean airy sound qaulity. I read that these element are not very consistant. One element can sound very different from another. So I called the manufacture and ordered a dozen element(6 ceramic and 6 crystal). I liked the sound qaulity of the ceramic better. I noticed that some people said their mics were unresponsive. The element I put in my mic back in 90' and have used it probable about 3,000 times is the most responsive mic I have ever tried, but some of the other elements that I tried were very bad!! Bad sounding, unresponsive, dull sounding. Sounded like the mic was broken! So it is true that these mics differ from one to the next.
The moral of the long story is: don't just buy one new element and think it is going to solve the problem. You'll have to buy a few a wire each up and pick the you like best! Then compare that to other mics untill your happy with something!
It is much like buying vaccum tubes.
If anyone wants one thsee for thier personnal use not for making money. I think I have some of them in box in a air tight container. I have other elements too if anyone out thier likes to experiment!
I've owned about 20 different mics and my favorite is a jap mic from the sixties that came from a reel to reel recroder. I bought three mics for $9.99 on Ebay and this was one of them. I think it is a Recon dynamic 50,000 ohm slim bodied style. I made a housing to go around it cause it is to small, For me it is perfect! Real easy to use and light. Sounds great from hole one to ten. Not all mics are like that!! I've spent a lot of money to find that out.
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2010 9:28 AM
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Greg Heumann
609 posts
Jul 02, 2010
9:05 AM
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@Jim - it really IS the cable. The cable you're using with your AT IS A HIGH IMPEDANCE CABLE. You have 2 problems:
- The MINOR one is that there is an impedance mismatch between your amp and your mic. This means the mic will not perform as it is designed to. That MIGHT be a good thing for you, might not.
- The much more significant issue: Your cable wires EITHER XLR pin 2 OR pin 3 to the tip of the 1/4" plug. It wires the sleeve of the 1/4" plug to ground. That means either pin 3 or pin 2 of the XLR connector is OPEN - wired to nothing. Yet your mic puts its signal on pins 2 and 3. One side is positive with respect to ground and one is negative. You are getting half the signal, using the ground (which "floats") as a reference. You are not getting the output the mic is capable of, not even close. This may well work as a feedback solution but any high impedance mic will be much louder. I'm not at all surprised you can turn your amp up a lot louder, but that doesn't mean the OUTPUT of your amp is louder. It means the INPUT of the mic is softer.
The proper way to connect the AT is with a cable that is XLR at BOTH ends, and an impedance matching transformer.
This is a common mistake and is explained, along with many other ways to manage feedback, in my document All About Harmonica Mics, and Then Some.It is available from the "harp mics for sale" link on the left of this page, or from the home page of my site.
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2010 9:16 AM
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Jim Harris
23 posts
Jul 02, 2010
2:13 PM
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Greg -- Sorry, I'm getting a bit confused. ;)
My AT is very loud out of the amp -- I can keep turning up, up to near max and shake the hell out of the place with relatively clean notes, using the new cables. I'm happy with that set-up. It's slightly noisier and quieter with the BB cable. (all are XLR to 1/4", to a Line 6 Spider III amp)
But the BB starts out kind of fuzzy and overloads at approximately 2/5 the way up the master volume control to ear-splitting shriek on any loud notes, sometimes it only gets up 1/4 of the way if certain effects are used (like the "Insane" setting). It never achieves the clarity or strength of signal that the AT does. (I know its supposed to be a little "gritty" and raw sounding)
I think I understand what you are saying about the three connecters in the XLR, but don't get why the new cords work on the AT only, but the original BB works all both.
Now I know how people feel when I try to explain photography or competitive marksmanship! :)
Thanks for the help and patience.
PS - I see now, at least some of what you are saying. Yes, the BB is significantly louder! But it is on a hair trigger -- it jumps to overload status really fast, especially with flange, echo and reverb all cranked up. Hmm.
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2010 2:19 PM
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rharley5652
175 posts
Jul 02, 2010
3:12 PM
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"ear-splitting shriek on any loud notes,sometimes it only gets up 1/4 of the way if certain effects are used (like the "Insane" setting). It never achieves the clarity or strength of signal"
@Jim
if your element in your BB looks like the one in the pic's below,..This I believe is your problem,. a cheapo crystal/ceramic element,.
You'll need to change the input to a 5/8"screw on or 1/4" jack Switchcraft connector ,.an the VC change to a 100-250 K ohm and yes a much need change to a CM element to get the tone your after,.
Or you could find a solid Shure crystal element On Ebay ,.keep the 5 meg VC that came with the BB,.
An change the connector to the 5/8"screw on or 1/4" jack Switchcraft getting rid of the XLR connector.
Feedback an ear-splitting shriek's are the nature of the beast,.you just have to tame the beast!
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2011 12:21 AM
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MP
588 posts
Jul 02, 2010
3:28 PM
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MP HATE THAT ELEMENT!! MP SMASH!!
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Joe_L
420 posts
Jul 02, 2010
4:13 PM
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I think some of you guys are overreacting a little.
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Jim Harris
24 posts
Jul 02, 2010
4:14 PM
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MP -- FIRE -- BAD!!
Rharley -- Yep! That's the critter inside mine.
Sounds like you are saying all the guts and connecter need to be replaced.
Do you have prices on your website for doing various levels of overhaul? Or can you tell me here what you would charge?
Thanks, Jim
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rharley5652
176 posts
Jul 02, 2010
4:24 PM
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@ Jim ,.message me through My link below ,.we'll talk
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2010 5:29 PM
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bluemoose
231 posts
Jul 02, 2010
4:33 PM
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You can't go wrong with a SUKM mic from the man.
Balls to the wall.
moose.
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rharley5652
177 posts
Jul 02, 2010
5:33 PM
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Thank you for them kind words Moose,.. "Balls to the wall" them there are steam engine words ,.LOL
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2010 12:38 AM
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Greg Heumann
611 posts
Jul 02, 2010
8:03 PM
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Jim - you said "the new cords work on the AT only, but the original BB works all both. "
That tells me that the new cords are wired "pin 2 hot" and the old one is wired "pin 3 hot". The signal on your AT mic is on pins 2 and 3. Either cable gives you half, and only half of the AT mic's signal. But the Pin 2 hot cable won't work at all with the BB, because it is wired Pin 3 Hot.
First and foremost, if you're happy, then all is well. Cutting the mic's signal in half to deal with an amp that is prone to feed back is an OK (and cheap) solution because your amp has lots of gain, you can turn it up high enough to get very loud with that mic. But I'm not blowing smoke here - you have never used the "technically correct" setup with your AT mic and if you did, you'd find its output as high or higher than the BB - and you'd find THAT to be the norm for other properly wired mics as well. You'd also probably realize your amp is too gainy and is contributing the feedback problem in general. Once you solve that problem, you might truly enjoy the tone you CAN get from a good bullet mic, or SM57, or 545... There's a reason so many people love those mics for harp.
Again, I'd encourage you to download and read the document I referenced earlier in this post. I think it might help you understand what's going on here.
/Greg
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2010 8:05 PM
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Jim Harris
25 posts
Jul 02, 2010
11:33 PM
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Greg -- Ah! It is starting to become clearer. I should have said earlier that I had read your article about a week or so ago as was getting my feet wet, but now maybe it will sink in better. It makes a lot of sense to have things set up as optimum as possible, and not just limp along.
So, do I need to rewire the mic cord for the AT to both 2 & 3?
Rharley -- thanks, I'll send you an email direct a little later.
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Greg Heumann
613 posts
Jul 02, 2010
11:50 PM
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Jim, sorry - I should have already told you that. You could rewire your cable, but that will only solve the pin 2/3 thing and won't deal with the impedance mismatch. The proper way to connect a low impedance mic to a high impedance amp (your case) is to use a cable designed for low impedance mics - it has XLR connectors at both ends - and a device called an impedance matching transformer at the amp end of the cable. This will connect to the cable's XLR connector. It has a "barrel" with an impedance matching transformer inside, and its other end is a 1/4" plug to plug into your amp. This is a nice one: Audix T50K - and has the advantage of exposing the jack on your amp to less risk in case of a fall, but this one Whirlwind IMP will do just as well for a lot less.
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2010 11:51 PM
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rharley5652
178 posts
Jul 03, 2010
12:30 AM
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Jim,.ya can contact me at:
simplyuniquekustom AT sbcglobal Dot net
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2010 1:58 PM
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Jim Harris
26 posts
Jul 04, 2010
9:14 AM
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Greg -- So, I really need a new mic cable for the ATs, with XLR at both ends, plus this XLR to 1/4" impedence matching plug? Not exactly "plug and play" is it, this amplified music? :)
Sounds like it would be easier and cheaper to fix the Blues Blaster mic to match the amp.
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eharp
688 posts
Jul 04, 2010
9:18 AM
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funny stuff, mp.
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Greg Heumann
616 posts
Jul 04, 2010
9:24 AM
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Hi, Jim
Yes, that's what you need for the AT's. The cable and IMT can be had cheap at any radio shack or music store - I suggest you try it to see where you're at with those mics.
"Fixing the (BB) mic to match the amp" - the BB already "matches" the amp electrically Changing elements will change tone but it will still feel feedbacky to you (as will, I suspect, the AT's, connected this way.)
If you listen to Joe's clip abve- THAT is the tone possible with a decent amp and your CURRENT BluesBlaster element, which is the same element as in the JT30 Roadhouse mic. The rest is technique.
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/Greg
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Joe_L
421 posts
Jul 04, 2010
11:09 AM
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Jim - That's this clip.
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2010 11:20 AM
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Kingley
1304 posts
Jul 04, 2010
11:26 AM
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The mic sounds pretty good in the clip that Joe provided. If that was the mic given to me at a gig with that rig I'd be happy using it. In just the same way as I'm happy to play off a vocal mic all night.
If Joe had told people it was a NOS crystal or a CM in that clip through a HG2 or a Kalamazoo Model II. I'm betting that many of them wouldn't know the difference. Of course people like Greg and BBQ Bob would, but not many of the others I suspect.
My point is that people shouldn't necessarily believe the hype surrounding NOS elements. What they should do is try different mics and elements out and see what they prefer, not just listen to the opinions of others.
For the money that it's going for the JT30 Roadhouse is a bargain and certainly worth trying. If you don't dig the tone you can as people have said swap out the element.
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Paul "Kingley" Routledge
My YouTube Page
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Joe_L
422 posts
Jul 04, 2010
1:08 PM
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Kingley - I bought the JT30 Roadhouse based on the recommendation of our fellow forum member, Harpaholic when Musician's Friend was selling them for $49.
I was expecting it to be a total turd because of all of the crap I read on the Internet. My plan was to swap out the element with a Shure controlled magnetic element that is housed in a Blues Blaster and sell the Blues Blaster on ebay for about $49.
After using it several times, it proved to be a pretty decent microphone. Is it as good as an old one? Not really, but it is pretty usable. I decided to keep it and use it, as is.
It's the perfect microphone to use at a jam, if some knucklehead drops it at a jam and breaks it, the element is easily replaced at a low cost.
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rharley5652
180 posts
Jul 04, 2010
1:14 PM
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@ Greg,.
Just checked The Roadhouse connector,..It an the old BB use the XLR connector just different style.
Includes 20' cable with XLR female connection designed to fit the threads of the JT30 and a 1/4" male adapter that plugs directly into a guitar amp.
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
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Greg Heumann
617 posts
Jul 05, 2010
10:33 AM
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@Rharley, unless they're sending a different version to where you are, you are mistaken. The Roadhouse has a screw-on connector - single center conductor. Not XLR.
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/Greg
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Joe_L
429 posts
Jul 05, 2010
10:55 AM
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Here is a JT30 with a screw on connector.
Here is the JT30 Roadhouse with it's new fangled XLR connector that looks and operates a lot like the old fashioned screw on connector.
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Greg Heumann
618 posts
Jul 05, 2010
1:15 PM
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I wouldn't call that connector an XLR connector at all. It is called a screw-on connector. In any case it clearly is NOT the same as the generic XLR connector found on a BluesBlaster.
An XLR connector looks like this:
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 1:19 PM
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rharley5652
181 posts
Jul 05, 2010
2:19 PM
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@Greg ,.not tryin to argue a point here,..
I got the info from Guitar Center,.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Astatic-by-Hohner-JT30-Roadhouse-Harmonica-Microphone-271320-i1435849.gc
I know The difference between the two,..just statin what Guitar Center say in their ad.
Could be their makin the New RoadHouse cheaper ??
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 2:48 PM
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Greg Heumann
619 posts
Jul 05, 2010
2:27 PM
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No - if you look in a components catalog like Mouser, they usually list the Switchcraft 2501 series connectors along with the XLR connectors because there is no place else to list them. I suspect that's how someone came to call this an XLR connector. But it isn't.
XLR connectors were originally called Cannon connectors, named after their inventor. Cannon marketed the "X Series" - then added the "L"atch that's common on all XLR connectors today - and evidently the "R" stood for the hard Rubber insulation separating the pins. There ARE XLR connectors with 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 pins as far as I know but all are pins and sockets, not the "button" - and all use a Latch as opposed to the screw-on ring as their retention system.
But who cares? Just wanted to be sure people didn't assume the Roadhouse JT30 had an XLR connector like the BluesBlaster.
It is STILL a good deal for a really cheap mic.
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/Greg
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Mojokane
55 posts
Jul 05, 2010
2:44 PM
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I'm with Greg, and MP...at the same time...Greg is simply saying, the JT30 shell, and the electronics are worth it alone...
And MP said, as is, that element in particular, is a piece of junk...but not in every case!
I have actually witnessed someone using that piece of junk, and kickin it up pretty good. For a crystal you'll need to do SOMETHING...and for a JT shell with a decent vc, you can't go wrong.
But...your skills with modifying mics to your liking will be the test.. I neva seen a jack like that...
I have always been a fan of putting the vc at the end of the shell, as opposed to close to your harp/mouth. It just makes better ergonomic sense to me.
What value pot is the stock RH?
Can you keep the same pot and use a CM?
..or do you need to change out the pot?
I rememeber when blasters had a nice 151 crystal, and a 500 meg pot, too. Was that a mistake? It still sounded pretty hot. Ahhh! nothing sweeter than a killer 151 crystal, eh?
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 2:51 PM
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Joe_L
431 posts
Jul 05, 2010
3:16 PM
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I bought my microphone from Musician's Friend, which is owned by Guitar Center. Unless they've changed the microphone since I bought mine, their ad is incorrect.
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rharley5652
182 posts
Jul 05, 2010
3:17 PM
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Greg ,.I agree "But who cares"
Maybe I'll stroll down to my local Guitar Center an check one out,.
@ Mojo ,..The pic's of the element & VC I posted above came outta a Late model BluesBlaster & Hohner used a 5meg value pot,.yes the 151 crystal was a great crystal,.
What pot's In the stock RH/?
Ohh Man ,.Here we go again//LOL
If it's the 5meg that the Blueseblaster used,. I'd say for sure change it out to a 250K for the CM element swap.
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
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Greg Heumann
622 posts
Jul 05, 2010
5:03 PM
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rharley - are you sure about that? Every BB I've ever seen had a 500K pot.
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/Greg
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barbequebob
1002 posts
Jul 05, 2010
5:47 PM
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Some of the early BB`s came with 250K pots to give them a different sound and that info I got directly from Astatic, who made them.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
603 posts
Jul 05, 2010
6:09 PM
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i had a BB with a 250 pot and a 151 in a 127 caseing. this was common-a 151 in a ceramic houseing, but i digress.
the BB sounded best with the VC full bore or disconnected. i'm sure gregg or bob could explain why.
PS. never did like the forward XLR. it got in the way of my palms. ditto on other forward jacks.
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 6:12 PM
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Greg Heumann
626 posts
Jul 05, 2010
6:56 PM
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@MP - agree about the placement of that XLR connector - pain the butt. Crystal elements are extremely sensitive to a load. The pot adds a load and 500K is the bottom of what anyone would call acceptable for a crystal - 500K is a little better than 250K, but 1Mohm or above is better yet. Disconnecting it removes that load (the amp still imposes one too) but the crystal is more free to perform. When you turn the pot down you're providing an even lower resistance to ground - i.e., more load.
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 7:13 PM
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Mojokane
64 posts
Jul 05, 2010
8:08 PM
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I'll make sure I post things relative to the original subject...My only comment on the cheap mic JT30 RH is....grab it while you can, and stick your own element inside. Find a good cable, a reasonably affordable amp, and go out and play!
..with yourself, sit in, or make a band of your own. AND DO IT NOW!...yesterday is gone, and tomorrow may never come.
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Joe_L
435 posts
Jul 06, 2010
1:09 PM
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If you haven't used one, why would you swap out the element before trying it?
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MP
608 posts
Jul 06, 2010
1:30 PM
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good point Joe L,
as we know, elements are a matter of personal taste.
i think i made my opinion re-these elements pretty clear. "MP SMASH!"
even so,i think these are a very good deal. i love the art deco JT-30 shell.
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rharley5652
185 posts
Jul 06, 2010
3:16 PM
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SAy Greg ,.
The Early BB's did come with a 500K pot,.
But they also had the Better Soundin Astatic MC127/MC151 element in them,.
The later BB's come with the 5Meg pot as they came with the cheap Japan element ,.They were tying to pull everything outta this element that they could,.
Both the early an the late BB's came with the Rod Piazza "Hot Rod" Circuit install in them from the factory be they 500K or the 5 Meg Pot,..
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2011 12:24 AM
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