Ryan: "Could part of that have to do with the fact that he's essentially promoting your harps (and Joe's of course), and discouraging a new customiser. (BTW, I'm not saying that was in fact his intention)"
That is why I stated whom I have purchased from, to be honest.
Secondly, how IS the logic flawed? I was being totally honest and said it like it is, and I hope he does well, but what I said is true. A great majority of players would want and WILL order from others! Not seeing the flawed logic, sorry.
And, this pessimism is probably coming from either my post speaking of my distaste for Carlos Santana or my post about TNFrank Otherwise, I haven't posted much of anything recently.
I already explained it to you in my first post. Also go back and read eharp's response to you, he said essentially the same thing.
"...what I said is true."
What you said was your opinion (which doesn't make it the truth), and several people think you're wrong.
"A great majority of players would want and WILL order from others! Not seeing the flawed logic, sorry."
Huh? Now your saying the exact opposite of what you originally said. Of course your not seeing the flaw in logic, you've completed changed what you said, and now you're taking the opposite position. What you originally said was "Honestly, I don't think most will go to a new guy when there are time tested/trusted builders such as Michalek, Spiers, etc" Now your saying that "A great majority of players would want and WILL order from others!" Is it just me, or are those two comments contradictory?
"And, this pessimism is probably coming from either my post speaking of my distaste for Carlos Santana or my post about TNFrank Otherwise, I haven't posted much of anything recently."
I'm not exactly sure what your refering too. But I'm assuming your talking about how greg more or less said that you've been really negative (not his exact wording) lately. I don't have any comment on that, I'm just not sure if that's what you're talking about, or if your saying that I'm being pessimistic , or whatever(I'm just a bit confused).
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2010 9:26 PM
That second comment stated that most would buy from those big guys, the first said most would not buy from him. It's the same thing just looking at it differently. The pessimism had nothing to do with your comment, you are correct.
And, I think 'most' is true. Most players I know would. I didn't say 'all.' I said most, and I have not heard the majority say no yet.
go smoke a joint or something.... you've missed the point.
I was contending that it's silly to talk about a laundry list of what customizers do and don't to their harps. The person who embosses and arcs and bifurcates the reeds may or may not build a better harp than the guy who does nothing but gap the reeds. Such a list to an uneducated customer may make the person feel like they are getting something less.
I thought the joke would be obvious. Do you work at a bank or something?
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
"I was contending that it's silly to talk about a laundry list of what customizers do and don't to their harps."
I'm aware of that, and if you'll notice I never argued otherwise. I argued that you were spreading disinformation. I'm also aware that all your double talk about the formulas and theoretical concepts you use for harps was obviously not serious. I'm simply talking about your claims about gapping, emossing, etc. When you come on here and make claims about customising, and then you argue and repeat those claims, people are going to listen to you. You may think it's a joke and that it's obvious that your just BS'ing people, but the fact is people are going to think you're serious (granted it should of been obvious to pretty much everyone that your ramblings about the equations and such your using on harps is nonsense, but I guarantee that several people who would read your post about how you don't gap reeds, etc., etc., would believe it)
Maybe if we were talking in person it would be obvious that you weren't serious, but when you're on a forum and writing things like: "As I said, if you seriously know how to build a harp, gapping has nothing to do with it." or tell us that Todd Parrott has said that your harps are the most responsive he's ever played, despite the fact that "There ain't no arching, or gapping involved", you can't be surprised that people believe what you're saying, and don't realise you're just screwing with them.
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2010 11:43 PM
This thread started off with what I would consider more basic custom harps ($100.00 range) and obviously gone way over my head.
I wanted to speak on the more basic comstomizers. I know they do a great job and have far more talent than i could even pretend to have, and I respect that. My question is, is it really necessary? It seems like the $100.00 custom harps are a lot of shaping combs, opening up the rear of covers, sealing combs, replacing nails with screws, etc... Will all the new models out now do you really need to do that. The Crossover and Manji both come that way and with a little gapping and or embossing, dont you have the same thing? Pat Missin reviewed these two and said they were better than some customs he had tried. If you are doing it for the love of the workmanship and you enjoy doing it than I am in full support of that. I just dont see a market for taking old technology harps and making them like new technology harps and selling them for twice as much. You can buy these off the shelf or online with no wait for between 40-60 bucks. To me it seems like buying a $15000.00 stripped down car, putting in a sundroof, power windows, navigation system, A/C, power locks, and leather for $35000.00 more. Now you have a $50000.00 investment you could have bought off the lot for $25000.00
Trust me I know there are famous customizers out there that do so much more you cant compare it to the Manji or Crossover, but I am not talking about these guys. And once again to do respect the amount of hard work and talent it takes to customize at any level.
Seriously, if you must know, I don't gap reeds, I reprofile them, there is a difference. They are similar but not really.
There are some basic things that go into building a harmonica and for some reason many people seem to use the techniques found on Overblow.com as some kind of bench mark. While some of that stuff works, it's not my method, it's not the filisko method and judging from the Joe S harps I played, he doesn't do that either.
I'm not going to start spouting about how I build harps. Yes I used to have a vid on YT. It was basic video intended for anybody to be able to make a better harp with limited tools. I set it to private because it's not how I really build harps and was started to hear about people who built harps based off that vid, I don't want people making harps and claiming they used my method when I've only showed 16 people my exact method.
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
"I don't want people making harps and claiming they used my method when I've only showed 16 people my exact method."
All I know is that I had the privilege of sitting at the bench at the remote Desert Lair of B, and watched as his deceivingly dexterous digits did something to one of my harps right before my eyes. I wasn't there to study at the feet of the Master. Rather, I was literally passing through and the dude was gracious enough to allow me to fix a pallet on his floor.
I'm never going to be a harp customizer. I'm really not good with my fingers on little fiddly moves. If I was, I'd be a surgeon or a guitar schlep. I watched, but it was with curious interest only.
This was over a year and a half ago. Since then, that harp still has a tight, yet smooth action and is a pleasure to play. How do he do it? I don't know. But, it works......well.
I don't care what you think of his bedside manner and written delivery, he delivers a magic product. Listen to him.
Ok maybe I should make myself more clear on what I am trying to do. I'm tring to help all the peolpe that have bought harps and have them sitting in a shoe box because they don't work worth a crap! I honestly think there are alot more people that fit into that catagory then the top 10% of harp players that will buy $150 harp. Ya see I'm trying to help people that need help! Honestly I think it is someting we should all try putting alittle more effort into instead of bickering over BULLSHIT!! Consructive difference of opinion is a good thing and I have no hard feelings about anything anyone has posted! Most of it is true. I don't know! As Greg said "don't shit all over it" This website is for like minded people to learn, grow and mingle. Or just read what is going on with other harp players of interest. I personally would enjoy it more if it was a little more professional and unified. I have been playing the harp for over 24 years and am at a very high level of playing. This only because I have figured out how to make harps work better. Having better harps will speed your learning curve I believe. All in all it will be more fun having good harps as oposed to them being in a shoe box under your bed!
Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2010 12:07 PM
@chromaticblues I didnt mean any disrepect. When you put it that way it makes a lot more sense to me. I have a bunch of crap special 20's sitting in a shoe box just like you said. maybe i should send them out to you and you can tune them up. i dont buy them anymore because of that reason, they dont last for me and some are crap right out of the box. i have had better luck with suzukis recently but this seems more like a marine band board so i hope i dont get ripped for saying that.
No Man not at all! I think Special 20's are the best all around harp period! Everyone has thier opinion, but that has nothing to do with I can make your SP 20's work great! $20 a harp! Lets see $30 harp in the shoe box or for an extra $20 I can have a perfectly good working harp! Say it out loud to yourself a couple times. You'll get it! Just kidding!! Just send one and see what you think. If you like it we'll do more. The $20 blue light special is only for the remainder of this year. Starting next year it will be $50 a harp! Well maybe not $50! I don't know yet. I'm between a rock and hard place! I want to build harps for people, but can't do it $2 an hour. Maybe after the first of the month I'll continue doing the make your harp work right for $20 or make it into a custom for $50. I think those sound like fair prices.
Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2010 12:03 PM
"@ Nacoran What harps do you use and where do you live?"
I like a couple different harps, including SP20's, but I'm a hack when it comes to playing. You need to target guys with a reputation and other customs under their belt to compare too. I'd be 'Wow' and then I'd be out of useful feedback. :)
Yo Chromo Wakfeild i didn't know your where so close mate i'm 5 mins away From Wakefield:)
Freakin Wakefield Australia That is, But mate I'm thinking of Buying Some SP-20's From USA ebay shipping them to you let you do your thing:)
I will trust you man got give a Bro a Break, I was at our Local Jam one Night i had just bought after Market Transformers for my FBJ,I needed some one to do the work,
so where all talking this young kid just started Hanging with us 22 years Old He says i will do it for nothing mate:) Yeh come round saturday i say he goes off to bench talk with other muso's,my Bro's go Jeez ya /ucken keen Nasty i say mate if he can do the job good i will give Him a go:)
Turns up Saturday he's got more electronic gear than i have ever seen he was Prepped i say Geez ya Scareing me Man looks like you know a Bit,
he Laughs yeh Nasty I'm an electronics Engineer at the Local coal Loader and in my 5 year at uni i love Building Amps from scratch:)
Then comes the usual question from me well why didn't you tell anyone,Then comes the useual Answer from a Muso's Mentality Nobody Asked me:)What could i say?
No this young man is getting all my Bro's amp work and is repairing Amps For my Bro in his Shop one of Australias finest Guitar Luthiers:)
Yeah I'm glad your down wit it NOD. I hadn't thought about it ( I'm new at this people please bare with me), but for international orders I'll have to charge an extra $5 a harp for shipping. I hope thats OK! I'm not trying exclude anyone. It just cost alot to ship harps over sees. I just sent four chromatics to thialand and it was $28. So if you don't mind that then I'll do it mate! PS you have to do one thing for me though. After you get this harp back I want you to run through the streets naked playing the harp as loud as you can!
Huckleberries hold a place in archaic English slang. The tiny size of the berries led to their frequent use as a way of referring to something small, often in an affectionate way. The phrase "a huckleberry over my persimmon" was used to mean "a bit beyond my abilities". "I'm your huckleberry" is a way of saying that one is just the right person for a given job.[1] A similar saying was used by the American dentist, gambler and gunfighter of the American Old West, Doc Holliday who would regularly use the term "I'll be your huckleberry." This may have been merely slang of the period for "I'm your best gun/man."
Just a comment on why I play harps by Joe Spiers...
Joe is a true customizer, and my experience with him has allowed him to understand exactly what I'm looking for in a custom harp so that it responds perfectly for my playing style (overblows, overdraws. etc.). If I were to ask Joe to build me a harp now, I wouldn't have to tell him anything - I could just order it and it would be perfect. Once you have a relationship like that with a top harp customizer like Joe, it's hard to switch. It's kinda like getting a good haircut - once you've gone to the same barber or stylist for awhile, you can just sit in the chair and they know exactly what you want, without you having to say a word. And we all know what it's like to take the risk of trying a new stylist and get a bad haircut! I don't like to take that same risk with custom harps since they cost a lot more than a haircut. :-)
This is not to say that there aren't other good or excellent customizers. Chris Michalek certainly does build some great harps, especially the Marine Bands I've tried, though I am primarily a Golden Melody player. His custom Marine Bands almost persuaded me to switch to Marine Bands, but I still love the Golden Melody. I've had good experiences with both Chris and Joe, but at this time I'm just too plain broke to be buying new customs for awhile.
I think the debate over who builds the best harps will always exist, but for me it comes down to who can build a harp that will meet my needs. I don't care what's involved in the process as long as the harp gets the job done. And, if I were to let another harp player try one of my customs, they may not like everything about it - it may not work well for their playing style. To me, that's a good thing and that's what makes it a true custom harp. It's been customIZED for me, the customER, not everyone else. So, I say try out these customizers' harps and see what works for you.
@ Todd I'm not trying to get people to switch from either one of those guys to me. People like you are exactly the harp players I don't want to make harps for! You don't need my help. I heard your you tube explaination of how to bend overblows. I don't think the harps I build are capable of doing that! I'm a blues harp plyer that uses overblows. I know how to build harps in that vain and have no experience doing anything else. If I took one of your harps apart I would know right away how it works, but thats not what I'm into! Thats like when I was in Nashville people wanted me to play country, but I don't! No one understood how I could just not play whatever I was offered! Because it's not like that for me! Everyone is different and if I do something its because I love it and don't care what anyone else does or says. That has nothing to do with me. I'm not trying to be disrespectful because you seems like a very nice person, but who you buy your harps from fits into that catagory for me. It doesn't have anything to do with me or what I'm trying to do! I not a fan of country or jazz music (and I would say your playing combines both of those styles) but you are a very good harp player and I like your style. Man that sounds sweet the way you bend overblows. I know alot of people can do it, but most people don't get that tone qaulity like the way you do!
@ chromaticblues No offense taken. I didn't misinterpret your post to think you were trying to get folks to switch; I just saw my name earlier in the thread and decided to comment. I'm sure you build some great harps and I wish you all the best in your endeavors.
The confusing irony (and subjectivity factor) for me in reading Todd's post is: Todd once generously helped me with a tuning request and in doing such tweaked my harp a bit and you know what: It just works perfectly for me. I'm not saying his relatively modest work is superior to any of the Olympians (I've not worked with a customizer who wasn't very invested in my satisfaction) It's just that Todd's tweaking/tuning was just the right alchemy for me.....Back to the thread- I'm going to take up Chrom's offer because like Todd "I'm just to plain broke" to come up with the funds to engage Joe (who tweaked a G.M. low F for me very nicely after a couple of others had tried unsuccessfully). d ---------- myspacefacebook
i could use a good $50 custom harp. C'mon guys...times are tough. But seriously folks. I appreciate what you're saying. Nobody really has any idea what actually goes in to a custom specially tuned harp.....and maybe, too... ..nobody really cares. I finally had to stop dickin around with gear, and learn how to play, from my heart and soul. And if it plays good why should I care about anything else? 808 728-5397 ..will You Accept Paypal?
Special 20's are my favorite harps too. I've customized few of them for my own use + some work for my friends. I've made MB's too but I don't want to do so much comb work that is required for them so I rather work with SP20's. Of course custom made combs would meke a difference there.
It's good to have more customizers in the markets, it is healthy for the community if there will be more and more experts in the field in time. I also think that knowledge is more and more open-sourced in the future so the difference will be in the craftsmanship not in the techniques - of course the pro's will always remain few steps further as they continuously invest time to experiment and improve.
