ME.HarpDoc
7 posts
Sep 12, 2015
6:43 PM
|
I read the first posts on the beginners forum and spotted the post on using a tuner to verify correct pitch when bending as well as holding a note for a long count.
I'd like to get both new and experienced members suggestions on what helped them bend to pitch in early learning stages. I understand the mechanics both lip pursed and tongue blocked but just can't seem to make it happen consistently (I've been playing about 18 months).
Thanks to all who respond
|
Mirco
309 posts
Sep 12, 2015
7:34 PM
|
Accurate bending takes a loooooong time to develop (at least six o's, maybe more). Get a tuner. I recommend the "Harp Ninja". It's designed for harmonicas. The screen displays the actual harp layout and the available pitches, and it lights up when you hit the right one.
What helped me? I watched everything available, as far as instruction. I bought Adam's bending videos. I read Gindick's book (I think he refers to the "K" spot). I watched Dave Barrett's stuff on his site. But it still took me probably 1000's of reps. I would take my dog for a long walk, bring my harmonica, and just try every bend. First, I'd go as deep as possible, then I'd try for individual steps. 1000's of reps, probably 100's of walks with my dog. We both got something out of it.
Bending is the thing that separates the beginners from the more advanced players. You need those pitches. The 3 hole is a bitch but so useful.
----------
Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
|
Rontana
176 posts
Sep 12, 2015
8:05 PM
|
This might not apply to everyone, since we all learn in different ways, but what has helped my accuracy is practicing the bends within the context of a song or stanza that is already burned into my brain. You know how it's supposed to sound going in, and know when the pitch is off (flat or sharp)
For instance, two of the best practice bits for me come from Adam's lessons on the 2- and 3-hole bends. On the former he has tabbed out the opening to the theme from "Batman." On the latter is "Mary had a little lamb"
I still need lots of work on my intonation, after countless repetitions of these two, but I recorded myself early on so I could refer back and gauge progress. Hearing the progress from then till now is a good feeling.
(edit: I've also worked at tabbing out several songs on my own that require 2- and 3-hole bends. "Midnight Special" is a good one. For me, writing it down, seems to lock the needed pitch in my head . . . even if I'm not yet playing it quite right)
----------
Marr's Guitars
Cigar Box Guitars and Other Unusual Unstruments
Last Edited by Rontana on Sep 12, 2015 8:13 PM
|
Mirco
311 posts
Sep 12, 2015
11:22 PM
|
That's a good tip, Rontana. Actually, Jon Gindick has a great book for this, The Cross-Harp Songbook. It has a tabs to songs you know, in cross-harp. When the tune is something like "Mary Had a Little Lamb", and it requires precise bending, your ear will let you know if it's accurate or not.
----------
Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
|
MindTheGap
662 posts
Sep 12, 2015
11:29 PM
|
I'd agree with Rontana - I need to hear that pitch in my head and a well-known tune is a great way to do that.
Although this isn't about bending, but hearing intervals in general - when I'm listening for a 6th e.g. 2D to 5B, I always think of the first two notes of the old song 'My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean'. There must be other tunes that use it? Suggestions welcome as I'm a bit fed up with that one, and it's odd having it in my mind when playing blues.
That said, having an external reference like a keyboard or tuner is great for keeping you on the straight and narrow.
A useful thing I learnt from Ronnie Shellist was that you have to watch ALL your draw notes on holes 1-6 to make sure you aren't playing them slightly flat without meaning to. Occasionally checking with a keyboard or tuner is a good idea.
To respond to your specific question with a suggestion - another revelation from Ronnie was to keep the bends quite fluid, i.e. instead of trying to hit them spot on (and so if you miss it's a 'fail') expect to have to correct on the fly. I find this appropriate in blues particularly where the pitch of some notes is deliberately ambiguous anyway and you can make a feature of it.
...in fact I remember that after diligently learning to play the bends in tune, I had to 'unlearn' that and learn to move around in the space in a particular way.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Sep 13, 2015 12:28 AM
|
SuperBee
2795 posts
Sep 13, 2015
1:13 AM
|
I spent time on some exercises that made a world of difference. It didn't take a really long time.
It did help to have a teacher.
1 draw. Bend it as low as it will go.
Use an A harp.
Use a tuner.
Try to bend that B beyond Bb. Try to get the tuner to show you playing a sharp A. Try to get that bend as low as it will go, and hold it. Don't be violent with it, but do practice taking it there gradually and also quickly. But get it down and hold it.
Do this a few times, maybe practice it for 5 or 10 minutes a day, maybe a couple weeks. Simultaneously with practicing holding the low bend, you are of course practicing smoothly bending to the lowest bend, at a range of speeds.
You can do another exercise with this, which is taking it all the way down and letting it all the way up...the aim is to not have any jumps. If you identify that the bend does jump from one point to another (watch the needle and listen) then go to the point just before the jump and work on moving through it smoothly.
You can do similar exercise on hole 2.
The hole 1 exercise will develop control. It's a good first stage. You'll develop control of the process over a full range. You can also practice finding the actual on pitch Bb note. You can bend to it, hold it, move below a little, then bend back to pitch...if you overshoot, bend back down to pitch...this is all about getting control. If you have great relative pitch, that's helpful, But you can work on developing your ear at the same time...the tuner is a good tool in early stages I think, and ongoing at least for me. Your ear will get better if you pay attention and the tuner can help in the process.
There is more to say but that exercise is one which helped me in initial stages. Bending to pitch is an ongoing study, but once you have control you can practice much more effectively. Maybe I can tell you about hole 2 and the half step in another post..
These exercises are what helped me the most. And then playing songs which use those bends. But until you can play the bent notes and move between them easily, it's hard to play the songs and take much benefit. So first, it's exercises to get control of the process, then exercises to develop the facility, which includes playing songs
|
Kaining
101 posts
Sep 13, 2015
7:17 AM
|
Using a tuner or a piano to get the sound ingrained in the ears help.
Matching the tuner on sound mode with the harp for some time like half a minute, a minute, ect... with my eyes closed, then switching back the tuner to tuning mode keeping the sound in my mind and still trying to match it for a few more seconds before checking what it says.
If you don't have a keyboard or a tuner, although i don't see any good reason not to have a tuner, i pick up another harp in a different key that have the bends i am practicing as regular notes.
This helped a lot for the 3'. Using a Bb harp to check your 3' on a C harp is a bliss.
An harp in a key a whole step lower than the one you are practicing on is usefull for that. A Bb when practicing on a C will have:
2 hole draw (and 3 hole blow) is the the 2" of your practicing harp
3 draw is the 3" double bend
4 blow is the 3' single bend
5 draw is the 4° overbend
7 blow is the 6° overbend
9 draw is the 8' blow bend
10 hole draw is the 10" double bend
A harp 1 step and a half lower (A harp when practicing on a C) will have the
2 blow is the 1' bend
3 draw is the 3''' triple bend
5 blow is the 4' bend
6 draw is the 5° overbend
7 draw is the 6' bend
8 blow is the 7° overbend
10 draw is the 9' blow bend
A harp 1/2 step higher (C# when working your C harp)
1 blow is 1' bend
1 draw is 1° overbend
9 blow is 9° overbend
Lots of hole in between are either single or overbend already covered by the other 2. It doesn't hurt to check on overblow.com scale finder to find wich one. C# is an unusual key though
And for the missing 2 hole single bend and 10 hole single ben, a harp one step higher (D when working on C) will have them as 2 blow and 10 draw respectively.
If you don't have a D harp, a G harp will have the F# as a 3 draw
It does required tuned harp...don't use that method with ET and JI tuned harps.
The big advantage of using other key harps is that their regular notes have the timbre you are aiming for when bending/overbending so that will get you the correct sound (pitch + timbre) you are trying to correct.
That's what really helped my for the lower octave, i used the tuner and was on pitch but the timbre was anot to my liking.
|
Pistolcat
863 posts
Sep 13, 2015
9:05 AM
|
I strongly second Kaining's post. A tuner is a great help but even more important is a reference note to aim for. I use a keyboard. After all in a music situation it'll be your ears that can lead you right. Not your eyes.
When chasing the correct pitch with a visual cue like a tuner your tone and timbre may go off totally. You end up with the correct intonation but a terrible tone...
----------
Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
|
Gary 62
32 posts
Sep 13, 2015
9:13 AM
|
I watched Jerry Portnoy's video on bending and that kind of got me started. He go's through all the holes and the bends in them. The 3rd hole is hard there's no doubt. I practice a C major scale on the harp and when i have to get the A on the 3rd hole it never sounds blended in with the notes around it. You can always hear the difference.
This is the video i watched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csY91mkFeEc
|
rogonzab
799 posts
Sep 13, 2015
10:36 AM
|
+1 Pistolcat.
For the last few weeks, I have been playinf whit a keyboard while bending. Is not only helpfull, is really fun!
----------
Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
|
SuperBee
2799 posts
Sep 13, 2015
2:29 PM
|
I guess it was 20 years ago when I became able to play bent notes. I thought I was pretty good at it when I spoke to Jim Conway on the phone in 2008. He had me play for him, and his advice was to go away and practice bending. Reality check! He prescribed exercises, fairly standard stuff. Bending to pitch, using reference pitches.
It definitely helped, mainly because I'd been confronted. The element of my playing I'd thought was strong, had been identified as a weakness.
In 2010 or 11, I had a lesson with Christelle. Christelle identified that bending was still an issue. Where was the 2 hole half step? She gave me similar exercises as Jim had, but also 'Yesterday' (starting on 2 draw). This did help, I still use it to help me focus. Christelle said to discard the idea of using a tuner and encouraged me to use my ears...and a piano.
Ian Collard told me to use a tuner. He encouraged me to use an exercise similar to the one RGscrr described in the other thread, playing the note to pitch and holding it, not letting it waver. I think that did help somewhat, and has a bit in common with the exercises I wrote about above.
So I had quite a bit going on over a number of years, and I just accepted that bending was an ongoing issue. There were some things I could do quite well, and importantly I understood that it was an aspect of playing which I couldn't take for granted, I had to always pay attention to it.
And then Jimi Lee taught me how to bend. All the above still applies, about the need to practice and pay attention and not take it for granted, but It is no longer frustrating and daunting. And what he taught me was not primarily to do with ear training. He certainly did teach me some effective exercises concerned with ear training, but ear training is not what made the difference. It was getting control of the physical process and developing coordination of the muscles involved that made the enormous difference in my playing.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Sep 13, 2015 2:30 PM
|
ME.HarpDoc
8 posts
Sep 13, 2015
6:01 PM
|
Great responses. Hearing from experienced players looking back to early times indicates you don't forget your early training experiences. Tuners, keyboards, lots of different exercises all allow us newbies a variety of options.
What resonated with me was SuperBee's comment on controlling the physical aspects of bending. I've got to create that "memory" in my tongue, throat, embouchure for different holes and harmonica keys. I like the concept of matching my tone to a keyboard and Kaining's advice on using a lower key harp to evaluate tone on bent note. I'll keep watching these posts. My bending hasn't improved much in one day! :-)
|
Kaining
102 posts
Sep 13, 2015
7:24 PM
|
What Superbee said about the physical process is extremely important.
There is no point in having the tuning and timbre in your ears if you don't build the physical capacity to get them deep down to your subconscious level.
Knowing what to do is good, being able to forget it and doing it subconsciously is better. That's a point that is made for musical theory by a lot of jazzmen, it apply to bend too. Doesn't mean you trully forget it, just that you don't have to think about it.
However, i ain't there yet all the time but it helps to know why you are ultimately playing scales, chorde progression, ect... with a tuner somewhere to check if you need to.
|
Gary 62
37 posts
Sep 15, 2015
10:51 AM
|
ME.HarpDoc: Check out this system. It's available as a free download. I watched Jason Ricci on one of his videos about bending last night and Jason highly recommends it as a great product. If you use it tell us how you like it.
http://bendometer-playing-system.en.softonic.com/
|
Truth2012
4 posts
Sep 15, 2015
1:23 PM
|
I've been using the app bendometer on my IPad. It's really helping me.
|
ME.HarpDoc
10 posts
Sep 16, 2015
2:08 PM
|
Ok, I downloaded Bendometer to both my Mac and iPad but it won't open. Actually it wants to open in another app such as "Gas Buddy" or "PackingList". The Mac version wants to open in iTunes but then I can't find it. Any suggestions?
|
Gary 62
44 posts
Sep 16, 2015
5:37 PM
|
Sorry ME Harp Doc i'm not that good with PC apps and stuff. Truth2012 you've got it on your iPad is there anything special ME has to do to get this up and running?
It should be simple surely?
|
Truth2012
6 posts
Sep 19, 2015
11:53 PM
|
I just noticed it looks as though you may have a different app to mine
The company that developed my app was by harpsoft.com made by a Joel Trunick, does that sound familiar? Bought it in the App Store.
|
MarkN
2 posts
Oct 23, 2015
7:04 PM
|
Hi there folks, I'm new to the forum and have enjoyed the different insights into bending practice. I have recently stepped up my practice routine and have also started taking private lessons. Most of what has been shared is spot on to what my instructor has me doing, as far as using a reference tone and really learning to train my ears to recognize the pitch so I can start to notice if I'm flat or sharp. The one thing he also stresses is that it's absolutely essential to first hear the pitch using the reference but then to sing it so that it becomes internalized and the embouchere will also begin to find the right position for the bent note. Hopefully I'm offering something new and useful with this.
I look forward to future chatting.
|
Ian
126 posts
Oct 24, 2015
1:48 AM
|
I 2nd the process of using a keyboard to follow.
However I did download a free app the other day that does a pretty good job.
Its called 'harmonica tuner' , got it on Google play, it's by some small developer caller pr422. You put in the key harp you are playing, what position you are playing In, whether you want it to identify overblows.... Then it shows you what you are playing on a harp diagram.
Not bad at all for zero cash.
|
ME.HarpDoc
26 posts
Oct 24, 2015
8:46 AM
|
@Truth2012
I found the app you refer to by Joel Trunick. About $15 US. I may download it if it is better than the simple tuner I have (PanoTuner) which will show me what note I'm hitting/approaching. Does the app provide more than a diagram of what notes each hole can be bent to and if you hit it? e.g tips on how to get there?
@Ian
Harmonica Tuner is an Android app. I have an iPad/iPhone/iMac and PanoTuner gives tuning info but without the harmonica hole diagram, which I have available along with bending notes.
@MarkN
Welcome from another newbie. You may have the same instructor I've used (Michael Rubin?) who gave me the same useful advice. Somedays I can bend, others not so well. I can't get to the lowest bent notes on holes with multiple notes yet and I'm still not on pitch consistently. Practice! Practice! Practice!
|
MarkN
4 posts
Oct 24, 2015
5:02 PM
|
@ME.HarpDoc
Thanks for the welcome. I am actually studying with Carlos Del Junco right now which has been a huge part of my newfound dedication. My bending has improved in strides in just a few months, and I am now getting the blow bends which I never could before. My control is starting to improve a lot on every bend except for that nasty 3D half step, but it's been a great experience. And thank the Harp gods for the abundance of YouTube lessons as well, they have been a big help.
|
