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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
How hard do you play?
How hard do you play?
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MindTheGap
671 posts
Sep 22, 2015
2:02 AM
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'How hard to play' is often discussed on the main forum, so I guess there is no one answer. But I'd like to hear what you do and what you've been advised.
Myself, I play quite gently I think. I was draw into this by the exciting sound of the amped harp, and although I've learned to enjoy the acoustic harmonica, I'm still mostly interested in amplification. More recently I uncovered what can be done playing acoustic, but close into a vocal mic. In either case, it seems you can get the best sounds without playing the harp very hard.
But some people seem to play hard and a get a exciting, loud acoustic sound. I think Adam advocates this, and I've a feeling I'm missing out on something.
I have the 'Paul Butterfield Teaches Blues Harmonica' book/CD and he is clearly playing really quietly, acoustically. Later in the CD he applies the same thing to a cupped mic, and gets that big PB sound.
On the upside, I've never blown out a reed. I did have one go slightly flat on a cheap harp when I was trying to comp with a loud acoustic guitar, but that came back up with a bit of light filing.
I remember when I first started playing with a group, and hadn't got my amplification worked out, so was struggling for pure volume. I would find some notes would choke which I put down to playing to hard in an effort simply to get heard. The answer to this was technical - having a set up that can provide sufficient volume without feedback.
Anyway, but not in terms of right/wrong, what do you do?
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Sep 22, 2015 2:06 AM
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Ian
97 posts
Sep 22, 2015
3:00 AM
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'Not very' I suppose.
I think this mainly stems from the fact that my wife can't stand the sound of the harp, or at least she does a great job of pretending that she's not loving every moment. So from the start I have had to learn to play lightly, through all the bends etc.
In fact I started to learn in a beach Hut where sound really travelled and there were other nearby so I didn't want to annoy anyone.
Now, when I get the chance to play loud and hard it's kinda exciting!
I think it's all about the circumstance and the requirements of that circumstance.
You definitely do get really different tones when you vary the volume, it feels like the harp changes character completely.
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Glass Harp Full
54 posts
Sep 22, 2015
5:54 AM
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I probably play too hard, especially when changing breath direction. If there's a few blow notes in a row followed by a draw note I tend to hit the draw note too hard, and vice versa. I'm working on playing softer with less breath.
I can relate to what Ian says about the harp changing character according to volume. I find playing hard somehow seems to give a fuller and more satisfying sound. Maybe it's just in my imagination but that's how it sounds to me.
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Rontana
186 posts
Sep 22, 2015
5:57 AM
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Probably about 3x as hard as I should, but I seem to have finally quit breaking 4- and 5-draw reeds by taking care not to try and bend those down into the sub-basement.
I could make the excuse that this is all because I don't play with an amp or mic, but the truth is probably more like I have the typical novice's lack of breath control. Slowly, very slowly, I find myself playing softer. Like in most arenas, being aware (and staying aware) that you need to do something usually heads you down the right road.
But, damn, I like playing loud. Live alone, in the country, so I've no one to bother. That said, one of my dogs loves harp, the other howls and moans and gives me dirty looks. Then again, the latter is at his calmest when I put classical piano on the stereo; he may just dislike blues and gospel.
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Gary 62
49 posts
Sep 22, 2015
8:47 AM
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I play loud. Probably too loud but again i love loud blues harp. Also the harmonica is not a loud instrument so i feel i have to have that boost. I play electric guitar as well so maybe that's something to do with it too!
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MindTheGap
672 posts
Sep 22, 2015
10:10 AM
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I'm with you on the quiet practice thing. It's an insistent sound. Not just for the family - I practice in a shed and high notes on a higher key harp are pretty hard on my ears too after a bit.
As Ian says, probably should use different styles for different circumstances. I don't have the need to play acoustic-loud at the minute. E.g. playing in guitar-harp duo, that would do it. But I think I might make an effort to learn to play loud too. What's a few broken reeds?
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Sep 22, 2015 10:11 AM
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MindTheGap
673 posts
Sep 23, 2015
2:28 AM
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Question to the loud players (now or in the past) - how loud is your loud?
I had some vague idea that maybe good players could make the thing really loud. Like if you've stood near a classically-trained singer, it's hard to believe that a human being can make such a noise.
I went to see a harp teacher to find out if that was the case. I had watched videos of him playing solo to large room and clearly everyone could hear.
Actually it wasn't that much louder, more that he could shape the timbre to make notes carry well.
I find playing harder brings diminishing returns in terms of actual volume. There's something good about the sound though.
I think I'm influenced by those videos where someone is playing acoustic, solo, really hard and everyone says wow great tone! Just as when someone's demonstrating their mic/amp and they play something rhythmic and busy that sounds fantastic solo but probably wouldn't be much use in an actual song.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Sep 23, 2015 2:31 AM
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Rontana
189 posts
Sep 23, 2015
5:52 AM
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It's really is hard to say. A mentioned earlier, I demolished some draw 4 and 5 reeds pretty quick during my first couple months, but I'm not sure that had so much to do with volume/breath force as it did with trying to learn to bend to pitch half-way correctly
There's stuff I play soft (Trouble in Mind sticks in my head as a soft one) just because the song seems to want it that way. ON the other hand, a couple of the first things I ever picked out by ear were 1st position versions of Brown Eyed Girl and Bring It On Home. I still play those very very loud when I practice (note: just my own head I guess, but I often learn melody in 1st before trying to transpose to 2nd or 3rd. I need that melody in my head or all is lost).
I guess that's the point. For me at least, it varies by the song. If I applied the wisdom on the main forum (from BBQ Bob and others) I have no doubt I'm still playing louder than I should. However the "should" aspect doesn't really bother me; I play at whatever volume makes me feel good that day. But, I do like feeling I'm gaining better control as time goes by, softer on some stuff, loud on others.
I think maybe bending or doing shakes while playing softly is a benchmark of control. I also agree with MTG about acoustic tone/timbre. Strikes me as one of the Holy Grails of harp.
@Superbee. Wow . . . the 2 draw? That's some hardcore bending. I'm always wondering if I'm going to do that to 3, since I abuse that reed terribly going down that step and a half
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Last Edited by Rontana on Sep 23, 2015 5:56 AM
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MindTheGap
674 posts
Sep 23, 2015
10:45 PM
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Oh yes the face-pulling. One thing that tricked me early on was watching vids of people playing strong amped harp, making a big sound e.g. holding a note with vibrato, making the face and the other body language, you know, bent over. Obviously I thought they were playing hard - why not?
It took a while of experimenting and reading to work out that you can get the bigger amped sound by playing softly with a tighter cup and louder amp. In most cases, that was the only way to replicate the sounds I heard on recordings.
I guess the body language is important for showmanship though.
Certainly I don't have to draw hard to 'floor' the draw bends, but I still have the impression that - for acoustic playing - there is something different to be had by playing hard. But that may be a trick of the light too.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Sep 23, 2015 10:49 PM
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MindTheGap
675 posts
Sep 23, 2015
10:49 PM
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...in terms of testing 'how loud' - we've got the test of 'how many reeds have you broken'!?
How about - 'do your reeds rattle against the covers'? I don't get that. Anyone else? My lowest harp is a G, and I understand it's more likely on the lower keys.
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Rontana
190 posts
Sep 24, 2015
5:45 AM
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@Mind the Gap. I do sometimes get something that could be called "reed rattling on the coverplate." And yes, it usually is on the lower keys. However, I don't think it's the coverplate. It seems more likely the sound is coming from the reed barely brushing the edge of the slot (maybe not being entirely centered, or maybe it's something else entirely)
@Superbee: Ha! I've been leery of "the face" ever since having seen a video of some fellow demonstrating the guitar-solo face. I've been very conscious since then of keeping my head up, and often practice in front of a mirror to avoid looking like I am suffering the repercussions of eating bad shrimp.
I agree that it's very likely a self-constructed distraction/delusion to fool the mind. I'm trying (not successfully . . . but harp is always a work in progress) more and more to parcel out loud notes as accents. I played drums for a decade or so in my MUCH younger day, and have been striving to apply the same accent theory to harp
Just curious . . . does Jimi Lee still give lessons? I hear great things about him, and am amazed how he does what he does with a rack. The reason I ask, is that after visiting his website it looks like he's a very busy guy. At the very least, his jam tracks sound killer (I've just listened to the samples so far) and appear to be loaded with great info.
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Marr's Guitars
Cigar Box Guitars and Other Unusual Unstruments
Last Edited by Rontana on Sep 24, 2015 5:47 AM
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