Here's Adam's latest in his new series of videos, in case you don't get them by subscription.
It's not a primer on how to TB, but a demonstation of some of the effects you can use when you can TB.
He majors on the tongue switch. I think that's the standard name for it - waggling from side to side. I have read that some people simple can/can't do this. Like rolling your tongue, it's genetic they say, but I don't know. I can't do it straight off, but instead I find the flutter pretty straightforward.
I remember a Kim Wilson interview (one the David Barrett ones) where he said he mastered the switch in two years(?).
Despite what everyone says I really struggle to hear a massive improvement in tone when it comes to the tongue vs purse debate. of course I can hear some difference but it's just not enough to make me twist my head, and tongue ?? around the difficulties of learning to tongue block 100% of the time.
For me at the moment it's best used for exactly what Adam is talking about here... Effects. I'm going to have to put a bit of time in to this switch warble/waggle I think though . Sounds neat.
Ian - yes, well that's a massively contentious topic on the main forum. You've probably read, it divides fathers and sons, but it's a bit more speakeasy here.
I think everyone has to find their own path with this one, as even the experts are divided. I went with Adam's approach, which is also similar to Ronnie Shellist's. A hybrid. Just to say that they don't just use TB for effects but for convenience and fluency. For instance making leaps rather than steps e.g. 2D to 6B. Not every TB note has to be slapped and pulled.
I also agree that I'm a little put off joining in with David Barrett's classes for the reason you say. However, his books are still totally valid, whatever the embouchure.
One of things that made up my mind was that, when Ronnie was running his online classes, he'd often have a guest professional player interviewed live. And of course, we'd ask about the embouchure. This covered the full range of options. And overwhelming message was practical - use what you need to get the job done.
I've read all the claims and listened to all the demos. When I started, from the amount of debate around I assumed that this was a major concern. And there was definitely a subtext of 'proper, professional harp players always 100% TB'. But I now know that isn't true.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Oct 16, 2015 1:00 AM
I got the free one month with dbs website through the hohner promotion and it's sooooo tongue block focused that all of the tabs and lessons beyond a certain point basically are assuming you are 100% tongue blocking . To the degree where it just put me of entirely. Like you said, you do what you need to get the job done. I have no doubt that my tongue blocking will go beyond split octaves in time but for now I'm lipping all the way ;) It funny how they things can split opinion so vehemently.
Last Edited by Ian on Oct 16, 2015 3:19 AM
I didnt start out tongue blocking, but i pretty much taught myself to do it over about 3 years. The last 5 years its been my default embouchure. Clearly this is opinion, a certain amount of subjectivity, but i think its quite a bit easier to play the stuff i want to play than using a default lipped approach. Im not saying its easier to pick up, just that once youve developed the facility, harmonica becomes quite a bit easier. When i try to play guitar, i cant make barre chords. I think there is an analogue there...because i see how easy guitar can be for people who have developed the finger strength to hold down those chords and use the little finger...i feel like there are articulations and moves on harmonica which are so natural if you are using the tongue, they just suggest themselves, no thought required, theres only one sensible way to go there from here. Just simple. I think thats why david teaches it..he has made that transition too. He didnt always teach tongue blocking. For the music he teaches, tongue blocking is thd easiest approach. Id pretty much already learned to use my tongue before i found david's site. I was able to bend tongue on, but not musically. I could change the pitch but id been led to believe it was a dead end technique. David showed me that he did all bends to pitch with tongue on so i pursued that and found it develped very quickly. But that wasnt how i developed using my tongue. That was pretty much the end of the journey, which allowed me to change from being a lipper who used the tongue to better articulate chords (slaps,pulls) and separate repeated notes especially on the higher holes, to having my tongue on the harp all thd time. I learned switches and octaves later... Anyway...its individual choice, in my opinion its worth pursuing because it made it easier for me to play the music i want to play...but i can see there are other approaches where it may not offer such advantage. As for tone...thats a funny thing. I think if you are lipping and have poor tone, learning to tongue block will lead to improved tone. But its not necessary. There are certain things one must do to use the tongue effectively, and these do result in reasonable tone. But you can do those things independently of applying the tongue...open the throat, breath from the glottis, relax the jaw, put harp deeper in mouth, control air leakage through nose...many of those things just happen when you use the tongue...and also, far more players begin with lipping...tongue block would be much rarer as a beginner technique...so i think its reasonable to find a higher proportion of players who tongue block have been at it for a while and developed their tone...just a numbers thing. Weve all heard lippers who have outstanding tone.
Superbee - that's a much more compelling argument for using TB than the assertion that you automatically get a better tone.
I do concede that it might though be a remedy if someone had a weak lipped tone though poor embouchure. Perhaps one of the uses is as a test of the quality of a learner's lipped embouchure?
I like your 'numbers game' theory. That would explain why it seems that experienced players use TB more that LP. Then the learners want to emulate the experienced players and the cycle goes on.
I can't tell a difference in recordings between my TB and LB (ignoring articulations) but I often choose TB even to play a single note, especially a long note with vibrato, as I just prefer the feel of it.
People don't seem to talk about the feel very much, but it's a big part of it, especially with an instrument clamped to a bit of your body (same with a violin - makes your head buzz). Adam mentions in one of vids playing bent 34 double-stops and it making your teeth rattle.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Oct 20, 2015 3:50 AM
For me it's certainly only a transition that I'd even only slight consider after I got a lot more competent. Right now, I've got myself to a stage where a lip purse embouchure will allow me to do what I want (although I won't always string it together properly). The idea of changing embouchure to me now is like someone saying, Ok, learn from the beginning again! Baby steps.... @mindthegap - I appreciate that you brought up the concept of 'feel' for the instrument. For me, the feel of the harp is what finally settled me on my favourite harp and what allows me to know if I'm in the zone or not. When I feel like I'm a bit more attached to the harp (for whatever reason) that's when things go well. Maybe it's when my embouchure is particularly deep....
I also tried the BluesHarmonica trial, and the emphasis on tongue block as the default embouchure was off-putting at that time.
However, nowadays I do tend to use tongue blocking as default - not for the reasons you normally hear, but mostly because personally I found it's a lot more comfortable. I used to find my lips aching after a session of tight pursing, but no such problem with TB so I stuck with it.
Another advantage for beginners is you can find your way around the harp easier as your tongue can feel the holes it's blocking. With lip pursing, you're relying mostly on hand muscle memory.
One more bonus for myself I've noticed is that holding the harmonica close against my right cheek helps compensate for my bony hands to produce a better wah sound.
I have noticed a difference in tone, though I wouldn't say it's 'better'... it's fuller but less crisp. If I'm playing a fast melody I will generally switch to puckering.
One definite downside for TB is the excess saliva can get messy pretty quick. At first it grossed me out a bit, but I don't mind it as much now. It will probably become less of a problem as my technique improves.
At the end of the day you should use whichever technique gives you the sound you want, it's actually a good thing we have various options open to us.
Harmlessonica, those are very good points. Especially that it's much easier to navigate with your tongue on the harp. Yes that's a big plus.
I don't get the lip ache, but my son did so I can see TB would be a remedy for that.
The extra spit can be a problem, I'm finding it less so of late. But it also means I'm tasting the harp, and I've a few that leave a bitter taste. Not a problem with SP20s and similar.
Absolutely, I never tongue block against metal if I can avoid it.
I think it was when I first bought a suzuki overdrive (in the rather sad story of me learning to bend) when I first noticed my lips aching. I was used to seydel hole spacing then strained to adjust to smaller holes. A rookie mistake I know, but it did encourage me to try tongue blocking instead, for which the overdrive is super comfortable for.
I'd even go so far to say narrower hole spacing seem to be better suited for TB. At least for me, on wider hole spacing, I occasionally have a tendency to leak from the wrong side of the mouth...
I'd say I'm fairly glad I learned the way I did and not from having someone try to teach me until I'd become comfortable using my tongue. Even though I probably took a lot longer to progress. I was encouraged by a local player to try 'ooh la las'. I really don't know why he said this or where he got the expression; I can only imagine it was from his own background and maybe his teacher had led him that way. Anyway, basically it led to me playing oh susannah slowly in waltz-time, and using some chords. The keep time on the chords I used my tongue to articulate rather than cutting off my breath. Yes, it was a bit sloppy both musically and physically at first, but it was also rather interesting and led to experiments with sound and using my tongue without preconceived ideas about how it should sound. It was exploratory, experimental and rather interesting. There was no frustration because there was no standard I was failing to achieve. Everything I did was either interesting leading to further play, or not very interesting so fairly quickly dropped. Looking back, I see that whatever I learned about playing oh susannah was probably not so important. But I had started using my tongue and that process continued whenever I learned new songs.. In those days I was mainly just inspired to play things not by thought of playing in a band, or from a course of instruction but just from what popped into my mind...possibly from watching a movie or reading a book...I had a book of tunes for harmonica, which were pretty whack...the marines hymn, yellow rose, sweet home Chicago, Dixie,...a bunch of stuff like that...and then sometimes I'd whistle something and try play it on harp...anyway, many of these tunes were 1st position melodies and involved middle and upper part of the harp...and I just tried to jazz them up a bit with glissando and staccato playing...and found that sometimes the tongue could create interesting effects...often just by accident which I would then try to reproduce...this is where I started to find that sometimes I could make the sound I sought if I didn't try to hard...that it was good to investigate what I'd done, but that often I couldn't do it again if I was concentrating on it. So weird this sensation...focussed and distracted simultaneously.... When I think about it now...I'm reminded of my mental state when racing a road bike uphill, following a wheel...the wheel is focussing my attention, but also distracting me from the suffering...if I think about my legs, how much my body hurts, and stop focussing on the wheel, I'll drop it...but if I focus on the wheel those other things don't matter...my legs have to do the same thing either way...if the bike in front accelerates, I have to respond... It seems strangely similar...my tongue knows what to do but if I think about what the tongue is doing I'm more likely to stumble, if I focus on the sound my tongue just does the thing required... I believe in sports psychology it's called 'flow', and it applies across almost every endeavour. You'll see this in Adam's videos sometimes when he plays something and then breaks it down with explanation...quite often he doesn't know and has to do it and really focus on what he is doing...he can't really do it if he thinks about it. This is, I believe, the difficulty folk find in trying to study tongue blocking the way David teaches it. There is no flow, you're thinking about it, it feels clumsy, a rhythmic, frustrating. My advice to anyone interested in tongue blocking...is just mess around with it for a while. Just try using your tongue to play chord rhythms, try playing a tune like yellow rose of Texas and using your tongue to get the staccato...just see if you can get crisper deliniation using your tongue... I see folks say the tongue leads to less clear articulation. 'maybe' so if you just are laying it on the comb and sliding around, although I think that's probably just maybe due inaccuracy or unfamiliarity...but greater clarity and punctuation is one of the great advantages of using the tongue... For super high speed stuff maybe it's too slow...I can't play that fast usually, one way or the other. Anyway, I've no skin in the game, I just thought I'd share my experience. I'm pretty sure if I'd gone to Dave Barrett's site with no tongue block experience I'd have struggled to learn it, but my fairly random playful experiences and experiments made things much easier to pick up. I should add, that although I'd learned accidentally that I could bend a note with my tongue on the harp, I absolutely did have to learn from david to be able to do this effectively and reliably. Then Jimi Lee got hold of me and put me through some exercises which I've detailed elsewhere on this forum. Those exercises didn't depend on having my tongue on the harp. I'm pretty sure Jimi Lee is not a default tongue blocker, but his bending exercises will work regardless. They are about control and developing control of the muscles you use to play the harp. And that is really all that tongue blocking is. You use the tongue all the time when playing, whether you're actually applying it to the face of the harp or not. When you put it on the harp, it's just a bit more range, another element of control. It's not a different way of playing, just an extension of something you already do.
