crispyagain
88 posts
Oct 23, 2015
11:11 AM
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Greetings beloved harmonica players. This is the first time I've posted in years but I know where to go if I have a harmonica question ! Thanks Adam for keeping the boards up in the simple but great old format.
I want to play "Softly and Tenderly" in the key of C first position. Will I find the missing notes on the Hohner 364 soloist ? The ones that are not there on a normal 10 hole C harp?
What are the other options ?
Thanks
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jason campbell
54 posts
Oct 23, 2015
12:40 PM
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the Seydel Solist Pro will have all the notes:
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel1847.sf/en_US/?ViewObjectID=285821&ViewAction=IC_ViewExtrasDialog&Currency=EUR
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SuperBee
2899 posts
Oct 23, 2015
2:12 PM
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The Hohner Soloist 364 is a solo-tuned 12 hole. It is like the middle four holes of a standard 10 hole marine band, but in 3 octaves.
Another way to look at is like a 12 hole chromatic, without the button.
Solist Pro is just a standard, richter tuned diatonic. It is missing all the same notes as a marine band, for instance. Of course, Seydel give the option of ordering your own tuning.
There is a Solist pro 12: these are tuned like a standard 10 hole with an extra octave added below, so in fact the missing notes are all still missing, in the extra octave as well. Unless you order a special tuning; extra $
But, don't make me work too hard; which notes do you need to play the song? Any outside of the C major scale?
Last Edited by SuperBee on Oct 23, 2015 3:18 PM
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crispyagain
93 posts
Oct 24, 2015
8:04 AM
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Thanks for the response. I really don't know what notes I need. I can only play by ear and I know the notes aren't there. Why isn't there a harmonica with all the notes !?
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SuperBee
2901 posts
Oct 24, 2015
1:49 PM
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Well...there is always the chromatic.
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SuperBee
2903 posts
Oct 24, 2015
3:44 PM
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Try a harp with melody maker tuning.
Melody maker has a retuned 3 blow, tuned up a whole step. Additionally the 5 and 9 draw are tuned up a half step.
Melody maker tuning may give you just what you need to play this in 1st position. The A for which you would otherwise bend 3 draw or play 6 draw would be avalable in 3 blow, and the F sharp you need in the second part of the melody would be in 5 draw and 9 draw. I believe the melody would not use the F which is the standard note in those chambers, so this would not compromise you in the rest of the tune
Last Edited by SuperBee on Oct 24, 2015 4:44 PM
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crispyagain
94 posts
Oct 25, 2015
6:02 AM
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Thanks. I have a Hohner 364 soloist on the way but I'm gonna need the F#. Melody Maker tuning sounds like just what I need. Where would the F# be on the Hohner 364 ?
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SuperBee
2905 posts
Oct 25, 2015
12:53 PM
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It doesn't have an F#, and unlike a standard richter-tuned C harp, you can't bend for it. Standard harp it's s half step bend hole 2, or file the 5 draw to raise a half step or overblow 5. With the solo tuned harp you've only got the options to overblow or file a reed. I suppose you could fit valves to 3, 7, 11 and blow bend the G down...
filing a reed would be the easiest. Fairly permanent though
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SuperBee
2906 posts
Oct 25, 2015
1:00 PM
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G harp in 12th position might work. If you don't want bends, start the scale at 5 draw. I think your melody would begin on 6 draw. I'm not sure if you'll run out of road on the high end of the harp though
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crispyagain
95 posts
Oct 25, 2015
3:50 PM
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Thanks again for your help and patience. I apologize for my ignorance. These are the notes I need.
E-D-C-B-A-G-F-F#-and G one octave up.
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crispyagain
96 posts
Oct 25, 2015
4:08 PM
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Also, can you tell me if this could be done with a chromatic harp ? And how about on a diatonic in any position using draw bends only ? I can't do overblows. Thanks
Last Edited by crispyagain on Oct 25, 2015 4:08 PM
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SuperBee
2909 posts
Oct 25, 2015
4:15 PM
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Yes, so your G harp will give you the E in 6 draw, D in 6 blow, C is 5 draw, B is 5 blow, A in 4 draw (& in 8 draw) G in 4 blow, 7 blow and 10 blow, F# in 7 draw. Do you really need the F as well? I think you'll only get F and F# together on an F# or a Db harp. Even a melody maker tuning or such would require a bend. When I looked at a score I didn't see the F but I may have had my rose coloured glasses on
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SuperBee
2910 posts
Oct 25, 2015
4:22 PM
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Chromatic has every note you'll ever need.
You could absolutely play it on a C diatonic if you would bend for the A in chamber 3 and the F and F# in hole 2. Or a country tuned C harp would give the F# in hole 5 and you can bend it for the F. Or the melody maker is the same as the country tuned for the F/F# issue, with the A in blow 3.
I'm not sure you need the F. If you don't, I think the G harp is the winner, but if you do, you're looking at chromatic or a special tuning.
I'd say try the G first, if you have one.
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crispyagain
97 posts
Oct 25, 2015
4:27 PM
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yeah it sounds fine without the F but I will need to get together with the piano player on that. So that puts me in the key of C by going with the G harp starting on the 6draw ? Sounds good ! You are very helpful Mr. Superbee. Thank you.
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SuperBee
2911 posts
Oct 25, 2015
5:04 PM
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You're very welcome. I'm glad to have been able to assist.
Yes, C on a G harmonica, 12th position. The C is in 5 draw but your tune starts on the 3rd note of the scale, E which is 6 draw.
If you played G on a C harp, the 7th note of the scale would be flat, which is cool for a lot of blues. Playing C on a G harp means the 4th note is sharp. for this melody that works nicely.
The position well suited for major tunes, and with bending in the low octave gives quite a good range. Lays out fairly well and especially on a G harp gives a nice spread of notes without getting too high.
I'd never really thought too much about it until I heard this from madcat:
http://youtu.be/L1UyPh3Z3LI
He is playing a D harp in G, obviously lots of bends. When asked why he chose 12th he said it was because he didn't like to overblow...
Last Edited by SuperBee on Oct 25, 2015 5:19 PM
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crispyagain
98 posts
Oct 25, 2015
5:12 PM
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After looking in a hymn book, I see that the F is in there.....(lyrics)softly and tenderly Jesus is calling-calling for you and for me-See on the portals He's waiting and watching-watching FOR you and for me.
(F)
So I guess there are no other options except some type of custom tuning ? Thanks
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SuperBee
2912 posts
Oct 25, 2015
5:20 PM
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Have they written out the melody or the chords?
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crispyagain
99 posts
Oct 25, 2015
6:04 PM
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the chords
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crispyagain
100 posts
Oct 25, 2015
6:12 PM
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I think I can make it work without the F, but it would be nice to have it. Thanks again for all your help.
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SuperBee
2913 posts
Oct 25, 2015
6:19 PM
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I think it's probably OK. If you play the melody starting from 6 draw, I think you'll get through that section with no problem. It's the B section (come home, come home etc) where trouble lived. If you can play it by ear, you'll know if the notes you need are there
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crispyagain
106 posts
Nov 23, 2015
7:13 AM
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Thanks again SuperBee ! Played it last night at Church and it came out beautifully. I never would have come up with that 12th position on a G harp without your input. Sincerely Grateful !
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SuperBee
2978 posts
Nov 23, 2015
11:23 AM
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Hey, that's so cool! I'm glad it worked out, and thanks for letting me know.
12th position...it's a good one to be aware of I think: sometimes it's just what you need!
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