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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
Tricks for the right key
Tricks for the right key
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Halffast
3 posts
Nov 24, 2015
10:59 AM
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OK , I'm a rank ,novice , beginner . Had never played any instrument until picking up a harp the first time five months ago ( at the age of 56 ) . I'm totally self taught , play a lot by ear , and do not read music ; thank goodness for the tabs that are available for some tunes . I recently began playing out a little with a solo guitarist friend who has sort of taken me under his wing ( he also happens to be a school , music teacher and has played professionally for many years ) . We've done " Piano Man " , " Flip Flop Fly " , some Stevie Ray Vaughn , and other bluesy/ rock/ rock-a-billy type tunes . He , the audience , and my wife all say I'm doing pretty good ( Some songs especially but then again they all have usually been drinking ) .
A real problem I have is matching which key of harp to use for a song . My friend always tells me what key he is playing in so I can use the handy-dandy chart that tells me which key I need to use to play crossharp . That has turned out well except for a couple of songs . Saturday we tried " What I Like About You " by the Romantics for the first time ( We have never practiced together , he just calls me up to the stage and " throws me to the wolves " with a grin . ). He said he plays it in D so I used a G harp as the chart suggests . As soon as I started comping I thought it sounded a bit off and then especially during the harp solo part . Everyone still clapped and told me they liked it but my wife said she thought it was off a bit too . We had another song a few weeks ago ( forget what it was ) but we were at a very laid back venue and actually switched harps twice until he thought it matched .
What are some possibilities as to why the chart suggested harp could sound off ? Is it my playing , the style of music , the key he uses for a particular tune so that he can sing it , what else ? As stated , I have no music training and do not have a clue . My friend doesn't get excited about it and just says we'll try something different next time . I'm nervous enough already and desperately do not want to hinder him at his paying gigs .
Also , I like to practice at home in the correct key . On occasion I have had trouble finding the key a song is in ( Usually one that isn't already tabbed ) so that I can match up playing crossharp .
Are there any tricks of the trade that can help me in choosing the correct key to use ?
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SuperBee
2981 posts
Nov 24, 2015
12:49 PM
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Hmmm...I have never played 'what I like about you' but if he says its in D and you find cross harp doesn't work, that will mean either the D chord is not a D major or D7 chord (eg perhaps it's a D minor or D major 7 or has some other alteration) or the other chords in the song are getting in the way. So to start with, identify what those chords are.
the post below assumes you know a little but not much. I'm sorry if im pitching wide.
A blues player commonly chooses a G harp to play along with a blues number in D because that harp provides a good selection of notes to accompany the common chords in a blues number in D
The main chord in such a song will be a D7. That is, a chord made of the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the D major scale, plus the flat 7 (7th note of that scale, flattened by 1 semitone). On your harp these notes are in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th chambers, inhaled. You can play the chord if you play them all together, or can play them individually in patterns and they will sound harmonious with the guitar.
So that's cool if the chord is D7, as commonly found in blues. But if it's a minor blues, that chord will have a minor (or flat) 3rd...if you play the major 3rd with such a chord, it will sound wrong...you need to flatten the 3 hole draw. If the chord is a major 7 rather than a flat 7(or dominant) chord, the 5 draw will clash
The other chords in a typical 12 bar blues in D are the G7, and A7. So playing a G harp obviously works for the G chord as anywhere you blow will be either the 1st, 3rd or 5th note of the G major scale. These are the notes used to build a G major chord. And if you draw 3 bent a half step you have the flat 7th, which is the extra note used to make the G7 chord. If you draw 3 unbent, that's the major 7 and likely to sound wrong over the typical G7 chord in a blues song.
The A7 chord is also cool as you have the 1st note in 1 and 4 draw, the flat 3rd in 2 draw bent a whole step down..,and it usually sounds ok to play the flat 3rd over the chord with a major 3rd. The major 3rd is also available as the half step bend in hole 2. The 5th is available in 3 draw whole step bend, and the flat 7 is in 1 and 4 blow. This all works even more easily in the octave above...4 draw, 5 draw, 6 draw, 7 blow, 8 draw.
And there are also scale patterns easily available for these chords. They amount to what is often called 2nd, 1st and 3rd position.
Anyway, the point of the above is to demonstrate why a G harp is a good and common choice for playing blues in D. The way things work, you can also just play notes from a 'blues scale' in D (draw 2, 3 bent a half step, blow 4, draw 4 bent a half step, draw 4, draw 5, blow 6) over the entire 12 bar cycle and it will sound harmonious. Cool.
So that's all good for blues...and many rock and pop songs are built on similar principles. But many are not. So a G harp will not always be the best choice for song 'in D'.
You need to know about the chord structure of the song to help you make a good choice of harp to play along.
The more you think about this, the easier it becomes...after a while. At first it's somewhat laborious.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Nov 24, 2015 12:56 PM
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SuperBee
2983 posts
Nov 24, 2015
6:30 PM
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Notwithstanding all I wrote above...wilay is in fact usually played in 2nd position...so if your buddy was playing in D you G harp should have been ok. The solo on the record is all played on 4 and 5 draw with occasional exhales on the same chambers. Usually it's considered to be 'in' E, and the chords used in the main/majority of the song, including the section with the harp solo, are E, A, and D, so the harp used is an A harp.
Your mate may of course play it in a different Key...if he was playing in D, as he said, he would be using chords D, G and C in the harp solo part...and you G harp should have worked great to wail away on the 4 and 5.
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jason campbell
62 posts
Nov 25, 2015
5:23 AM
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General advice: sounds like you're doing great, just keep it up.
A side note: I'm pretty sure What I Like about you (the riff on the record) was played straight, in first position. So maybe for that song you should try a D harp and use the chords in the 4-7 hole range.
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Halffast
4 posts
Nov 25, 2015
5:41 AM
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I had watched the Romantics play the song on a Youtube video and have the solo down pretty well . I did indeed wail away on 4&5 , plus I threw in some fill in the places where the lead singers band mates did a bit of backup vocals . It just sounded " flat " to me .
I appreciate your explanation but I'm afraid it lost me rather quickly . As I said I have NO musical training at all , cannot read music , and pretty much play by ear and what tabs I can find .
There are no aspirations in me of every playing as a professional . I just want to be able to play along with friends on occasion , without embarrassing myself too much . This harp thing is truly addictive . When I tell myself that I'm going to practice for a half hour , I'll finish , look at the clock , and discover that two or three hours have passed . Getting " lost " in the harp is very therapeutic .
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jason campbell
63 posts
Nov 25, 2015
8:01 AM
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well I think the original recording is in E, so if your friend is playing it in D, and you try that, you'll sound "off" comparing it to the recording.
I was suggesting you don't play in cross harp, but instead use the same key harp as the guitarist is playing in. But I think you will get it in either case. If you get a chance to practice with your friend, just see if he thinks you're staying in tune.
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ME.HarpDoc
39 posts
Nov 25, 2015
12:56 PM
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If you have an iPhone, there's a free app called Key Detect by MixVibes that will detect the music key in real time. It has a few other features that aren't really explained and it appears it only works on an iPhone. I use it a lot when I'm listening and most of the time it allows me to choose the correct harp.
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Halffast
5 posts
Nov 25, 2015
1:33 PM
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That app sounds very handy and my wife has an iPhone .
Thanks for the advice guys .
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Halffast
6 posts
Dec 07, 2015
6:07 AM
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We got the app on my wife's phone and tried it out this last weekend with a couple of bands we heard plus my buddy . Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have any explanation of how exactly to use it . When it first "listens" to a song , a key will pop into a large circle at the bottom of the screen ( sometimes it will toggle between a couple of keys but usually settles on one ). Then another key pops into a smaller circle at the top of the screen , what is that one ? The key in the large circle usually matched what key the song was being played in ( but not always and it was off the most on my buddy's playing ). Any advice on the best way to use this app ?
Last Edited by Halffast on Dec 07, 2015 6:07 AM
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ME.HarpDoc
54 posts
Dec 08, 2015
12:32 PM
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From what little I could gather from a couple of websites, the smaller circle gives a suggestion of what can be mixed with the primary key noted in the large circle. I has nothing to do with what we would choose as a harp key. It is frustrating that there doesn't seem to be any help material. Most of the time, if you can catch the intro lead music on a tune or band, the key is accurate, but not always. My ears are not good enough to even get that close so i find the app helpful and it's free. i wouldn't bet my stage accuracy on it though.
I was at a blues jam the other day and the guitarist was calling out the key. He'd call out G and I'd pull out my C harp for cross position. Sounded right but afterward he said he was playing all the keys in minor!
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ME.HarpDoc
55 posts
Dec 08, 2015
12:58 PM
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I just listened to the original by Romantics. Key finder said it was in E and when I played A harp in 2nd position along with tune it was spot on. Playing in D would call for a G harp but that would sound off as it would be low for this tune. Playing in same key, D, might be ok. Be sure he's not telling YOU what key to play in, e.g. he's going to play in A so he wants you to play in D because he knows something about harp positions.
Last Edited by ME.HarpDoc on Dec 08, 2015 1:00 PM
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Halffast
8 posts
Dec 09, 2015
4:52 AM
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That helps Doc . We heard another band play the tune and the app read an E . I asked them afterwards and they said that was the key they were in so as to be true to the original Romantics song . My buddy does always tell me what key he is playing in and double checks me on my harp selection . Maybe we will need to experiment a bit on some songs that we don't seem to match up on , I just don't like doing it in front of a crowd . The guy is just so busy teaching , playing 5 or more times a week , and raising a family that I don't know if we will ever get to do any practicing to iron things out before a gig .
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