New but determined
17 posts
Dec 03, 2015
6:43 AM
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I'vE been practicing with the Crossover a lot and the edges of my mouth are really sore. Will smoothing these down more with steel wool or emery paper help. I can still play my Sp20's comfortably but prefer the Crossover.
Maybe I just practice too much:-0
Kind of looking at the Hober Rocket, Seydel Session Steel and Seydel Silver.
Last Edited by New but determined on Dec 03, 2015 9:47 AM
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MindTheGap
826 posts
Dec 03, 2015
9:59 AM
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I'm going to throw another idea your way - Lee Oskar. I'm going to eulogise about them shortly, but if you're looking for comfort...
(depends a bit on if you have a beard, more later)
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 03, 2015 9:59 AM
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New but determined
18 posts
Dec 03, 2015
10:52 AM
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Took it apart and cleaned the insides best I could, boy the brass sure is tarnishing fast compared to the Manji's I have, not surenifnthstbmakes any difference. Anyway, I put it back together and it's more comfortable in my lips.
I think since I like the way it plays that's all I'll do is play and try not to think about the options until I see a lot of improvement in my skills. I just don't know enough nor have developed enough talent to know.
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Harmlessonica
169 posts
Dec 03, 2015
12:09 PM
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It is possible you're practicing too much - or, more to the point, too long without allowing your lips to rest.
However, I'd be more inclined to think that you're inadvertently forcing the harmonica hard against your lips. If you moisten the length of the harp before you start, even a light touch with your lips should provide an airtight seal.
I often suffer the same thing myself, especially when playing a faster piece of music. But it's good to be conscious of our bad habits before they become too ingrained.
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Rontana
230 posts
Dec 03, 2015
3:50 PM
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Hey NBD,
For quite a few people (self included) the tin-sandwich harmonicas - like the Crossover, Marine Band, etc - causes sore lips, whereas the recessed-reed plate harps (like SP 20) do not. I love the sound of Golden Melodies, but the extended reed plates tear up my lips and yank hairs out of my scruffy face. I did take one to the workshop once, filling down the front part of the reeds and then smoothing with varying grits of sandpaper . . . but it was a lot of effort.
Rockets are okay, but I don't like the side vents. I've got a couple, and they sound a little brassy to my ear. My favorite is a straight Special 20 with the back opened up.
One of these days I'm going to get one of the Blue Moon Harmonica Special 20s with an open back/corian comb, as i think that would suit me right down to the ground. I'll give you a compare and contrast of it when I do (have to replace the transmission in my van first . . . it just died).
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SuperBee
3023 posts
Dec 03, 2015
6:48 PM
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I play crossovers, and marine bands..as regards potential to hurt you, they're the same. I even convert my special 20s to sandwiches. I think they play better than harps built on recessed combs, potentially. I don't convert all my sp20s, but I have done a couple.
Anyway...I guess it's clear I don't think this is a big deal...and the reason is that it's not something which happens to me...much.
I have very occasionally had sore mouth from playing. Once it was a harp with a rough part, which I filed/sanded smooth. I don't regularly smooth my harps; I have some I've smoothed, lots I haven't.
But, over the years on this forum I've seen plenty of references to bleeding cut lips from protruding reed plates.
My conclusion is that some people push the harp on their face with more force than others. I tongue block it, and there's basically no pressure against my lips. When I was getting to terms with lipping it, I did notice I was using more pressure for a while, until I somehow relaxed and let my lip fold a bit softer.
But, sometimes the harp is rough, and smoothing is called for. It doesn't take much, just smooth the relevant edge and corner/s. Some folks go very heavy into rounding things; that's not necessary. The difference between a sharp knife and a blunt knife is not much.
I think I suffer more from lip soreness in cold months...
So...playing a lot, especially if cold
Playing with too much pressure/tension in face especially lip, and/or sharp-ish edge or corner. One of those or maybe a combination.
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SuperBee
3024 posts
Dec 03, 2015
7:12 PM
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Oh, usually sandpaper is enough to smooth the brass. If it's a rough spot on a steel cover, a little file may be helpful. It's more likely to be corners and short edges of the low end that hurt you, and maybe the long edge of the draw plate.
Btw, I repair harps as a kind of hobby that pays its way...I'll have to start a new year soon, but this year I worked on around 180 harmonicas. Most were hohner sp20 and marine bands but I also got to grips with a few Lee oskars, Suzuki and a dozen Seydel harps. In terms of build quality/rough edges...hohner harps are very good. Suzuki excel in certain ways, especially in the aesthetic ways, and use the highest quality hardware, but hohner have the edge regarding functional finish of reeds and slots, from my point of view. Lee Oskar harps are also ok, I really don't have any complaint about the quality, just the design is less appealing to me.
I have never actually cut myself on a hohner, although I have had to attend to occasionally rough joins on covers..like twice, and reed plates which caused some tenderness. I have never cut my fingers on a hohner, Suzuki or Lee Oskar harp. Now that I know which harps to be careful of, I hope I won't cut my fingers again.
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Glass Harp Full
67 posts
Dec 04, 2015
2:00 AM
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I haven't had this problem with my Crossover but it does make the webbing between my thumb and fore finger sore after a while.
Maybe the issue is too much force as others have suggested.
The most comfortable harp I've tried so far is the Suzuki Bluesmaster so maybe try some other harps and see if you still have the same problem.
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New but determined
30 posts
Dec 09, 2015
7:09 AM
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Using Chapstick when not playing has healed the lips. I've really fallen in love with this harmonica and it no longer seems to be a problem. I'm guessing I was just playing too much because it's not a problem at all anymore.
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MindTheGap
847 posts
Dec 09, 2015
7:46 AM
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Good news. I put some chapstick in my gigbag, in anticipation. But I've never used it as it turns out.
This does indicate how much you've been practising. Do you think it can continue at that intensity?
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New but determined
31 posts
Dec 10, 2015
6:59 AM
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I could but my list of tunes I can play is very short and I am unable to include my rather awkward bends with the first three holes into compositions without the notes sounding like hoarse frogs. I also want to learn something about chords as I've concentrated only on single note melodies, I'm getting a little bored. I'll pick up my harmknica to play and then think, no I don't want to play Shenandoah again lol. But I'll figure it out, I have the time and the interest.
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ME.HarpDoc
59 posts
Dec 10, 2015
1:52 PM
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@NBD
I've suggested this book in other threads for different reasons. "3 Minutes to Blues, Rock & Folk Harmonica" by David Harp. David was my introduction to harmonica and his approach was about breathing patterns and chords to start. The book can be bought with or without the CD. I recommend the CD as there are some play along tracks (he also has a CD called "Jammin' with Dave" that has good backing tracks).
The book has some practice songs but if you can get the breathing patterns down while blowing/drawing chords, it gives you a lot of flexibility in your playing. You can find his book on Amazon.
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New but determined
34 posts
Dec 11, 2015
7:19 AM
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This forum is amazing, for the very things stated above. This kind of information a person could possibly never learn forty years ago, unless you were in the middle of it right there with those people making the music we can now listen to on the Internet.
Re: the comment about the Manji in A, I bought the small set of Manji's CAD and then because of my hearing decided to get the LowCD Manji's in the cool case offered by RockinRon. Now I don't really know what to do with those Low versions but they play well and I put them away for another time. But the A Manji seems almost magical and yet I always grab my Crossover C to play even though I prefer the sound of the Manji A.
I have three harps in C Sp20, Manji and Crossover and although I had to get used to the physicaly different feel of the Crossover and quite honestly I'm not in love with the key of C (I know that's weird to say that) I realize that also on my guitar (I enjoy writing (making up) my own compositions for picking and I have nothing done in the key of C so that might be an indication.
I really like the key of D but with damaged hearing I have difficulty hearing 8,9 and 10 holes and get the idea I'm blowing too hard to hear (I live in an apartment - blowing high notes to make them loud might be a bad idea), the low D I have seems extreme so I'll wait on that one until later.
I expect I'll never play with a band, I also expect I'll mostly play alone at home and the sole reason is I just love ye sound these make and like the guitar, I love that I get to be the one to make it. I have no other excuses.
I'm going to go grab my Manji A and play for awhile and I probably will order a Crossover in A today if it goes in the way I anticipate. I just really like the way my mouth and hand works with the Crossover, can't explain it beyond that.
Thanks for the valuable information.
Last Edited by New but determined on Dec 11, 2015 7:24 AM
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Rontana
234 posts
Dec 11, 2015
11:03 AM
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@NBD
A little OT here . . . but just FYI
If you're looking for instruction books (following up on Harp Doc's recommendation) I'd suggest Jon Gindick's "Bluesify Your Melody." It contains many standard songs (great stuff. Summertime, Swing Low, Baby Please Don't Go, and probably 40 or 50 more) all tabbed out in 2nd position. Also comes with a CD of Jon playing the tunes so you can hear what they should sound like.
I'm a firm believer in using many different books and teachers. I have learned much from Gindick's books, and have many online downloads from Adam G and Ronnie Shellist. I've bought quite a few books and downloads from other folks, but they just didn't do much for me (probably will stick them all on Ebay, or maybe on the forum "for Sale" page pretty soon.
This is not to say Harp and Barrett aren't excellent. It's just that individuals, being unique, will respond to some teaching approaches better than others. Also, check out Jimi Lee's jam tracks; they're my next purchase.
Oh . . . and Winslow Yerxa's book should be required reading.
Last Edited by Rontana on Dec 11, 2015 11:10 AM
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New but determined
36 posts
Dec 11, 2015
1:12 PM
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I have Jon's book Country and Blues for the Harmonica and just ordered Harp Doc's reccomendation, it should be here by mid week. Thanks
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