Bringing over a topic I started in the other place, it was remarked that 3rd position is for playing minor stuff. And it's true that's it's naturally suited for that. But it was Todd Parrott that clued me into using 3rd position for major too.
All the notes are there in the lower octave if you have the bends down. I feel it's kind of the reverse of 2nd position - in 2nd you might play your bluesy minor feel stuff in the lower octave, and go up top to get a more major-pentatonic feel.
Here's Paul Delay. The conventional low-end phrase in 3rd position is to go all dark, minor and diminished with deep 2'' and 3''' bends (as discussed in David Barrett's book). But check out here the phrases starting at 1m20s, that 2' gives you the major 3rd.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 15, 2015 12:21 AM
Yes, if you can play the bottom end, you can do this...and the top of course where you'd bend the 9 and avoid the 9draw...although maybe the minor 3rd is more acceptable in major than vice versa. I've been thinking about it..I play a little 3rd but I don't have much fluency, no patterns in my 3rd pos playing, just a couple tunes and the scales. I do enjoy playing my G harp though and playing a G in A is an attractive idea to me. I use 3rd position thinking when I'm playing based on 2nd...so 2nd for the I chord, 3rd for the V... I was surprised to find this was relatively uncommon and that most play the scale for the tonic chord... I started doing this in 3rd ... Playing 3rd for the tonic...gosh, it works... Oh...I meant to say...country tuned harp makes playing 3rd like playing 2nd. Very interesting the difference 1 note can make. I've never played melody maker tuning but I imagine that would make 3rd very natural
Yes, I must say I'd don't tend to go into 3rd-position-thinking for the V chord in 2nd position, but maybe should. I mean in the sense that I now DO go into 1st-position-thinking for the IV chord like you mention in your other thread, and that's opened a door.
And also, yes, it's important to say that playing there is much more scope for using the minor 3rd in a mostly-major blues, than using the major 3rd in a minor-ish blues.
Sugar Blue does do his hi-speed major thing at the top end. I've learnt not to be a stickler for theory coz it doesn't apply like that for blues. But purely for my ear, purely personal, I thought it sounded great when I heard it on one song. Not so great on the next one etc. Heresy I know. I feel relief when he goes down the low end and sounds great again. Probably sour grapes because I can't do it and never will be able to.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 15, 2015 1:35 AM
...but back to the plot. I now do like playing a G harp in A, coz I like the lower-pitched sound as a change from always using a D-harp for it.
I've just got a lo-F for the first time, mostly to play in 2nd position in C without summoning the bats. But also to play 3rd position in G, again for a change of sound.
3rd position is probably best suited for playing dark or minor blues. But it is very true that there is some GREAT major sounding stuff there. It's very good for William Clarke style West coast blues. ---------- Marc Graci YouTube Channel
It is sometimes useful to think of 3rd position as being the same as the V chord in 2nd position, but it's mostly just limiting... the V-IV-turnaround progression is so unique that there's little that can be transferred over. I mean that, you could theoretically take any licks that you learned in 3rd position and use them in the V in 2nd, but you only have one bar of V.
It's more useful to take any 1st position licks you learn and apply them to the IV chord in 2nd, because at least you have two bars to work with. ---------- Marc Graci YouTube Channel
i do follow what you're saying there marc and i agree generally I use the 3rd position arpeggiated 7chord in the low octave, followed by the 1st position equivalent...but there is only so many times you can do that of course...and you don't really want the minor 3rd, although its not the end of the world re 1st position licks...totally. you can have up to 4 measures of the IV chord used in a 12 bar pattern. similiarly, playing in 1st its good to have the 12 position moves for the IV and every now and then use 2nd position for the V...
i guess i'm not really thinking about licks as such...just using the chord tones as appropriate to emphasise the change rather than always sticking to pentatonics..so if your playing something and using minor pentatonic, maybe with the b5 thrown in, so the so-called blues scale...then if you use the 3rd of the V chord...rather than the minor 3rd (the flat 7th of the tonic chord, as per the pentatonic minor scale), or a lick involving the bent 6draw or triple 3draw...that can be kinda cool...if the band is using a chord with a 6 or 9...maybe its cool to work that tone in...but all depends on the number and the actual chords being used. just stuff can be used for variety, in blues its probably not the main game but can devise a few interesting moves with some of this... but mainly i guess i do the thing with 3rd when transposing,,,so like if you have that form where you repeat the lick but transpose to the new chord. or use a leading tone from the chord...say the root note, followed by a riff based on a pentatonic scale...same riff but with a new leading tone each time...or as in Caldonia where the 3 draw is first palyed as the blue or major 3rd of the I chord, then as the flat 7 of the IV chord and then as the 5th of the V chord...
