ME.HarpDoc
67 posts
Dec 19, 2015
9:00 AM
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This showed up in a recent post and probably deserves it's own topic. Should the beginners forum continue or should it be rolled into the main forum?
My personal experience as relatively new to harp and new to posting on the forum is that I feel less intimidated asking certain types of questions a beginner might have in this forum than on the main forum. Especially questions re instruction, difficulty achieving certain playing techniques or equipment questions a newbie might have that may seem obvious to seasoned members.
Sometimes I would feel intimidated by some of the forum posters who seem to expect me to be more up to speed or learned before asking what appears to them as silly or already obvious question and receiving what feels like condescending answers such as "you should first practice on your acoustic tone" or "the problem' s with you, not your harp". Possibly correct advice but it wouldn't encourage me to post a second time.
The beginners forum feels like a safe place to post. If there were a way to encourage more participants, and they're probably out there, that would be great. Perhaps a periodic posting on the main forum reminding observers of the opportunity available on the beginners forum.
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Crawforde
23 posts
Dec 19, 2015
9:43 AM
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I really like the beginner's forum and find it a great resource.
Maybe something could be put on the main page or in the store aiming the people downloading Adam's lessons to here.
MTG has done a great job here and there is a lot to be learned.
It is also a nice place for chromatic or melody players who are just trying out blues harp.
The main page is great, but it can be a bit intimidating to ask basic questions there about problems the majority has left behind years ago.
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Glass Harp Full
74 posts
Dec 19, 2015
3:03 PM
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I also feel this forum is a safe place to post and have enjoyed it. Hope it stays.
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MindTheGap
889 posts
Dec 20, 2015
12:20 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread. The forum has being going few months and it's a good time to reflect and give some feedback to Adam.
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MindTheGap
890 posts
Dec 20, 2015
12:22 AM
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To keep things in the one thread, I'll just put in a reference to where the discussion started (which was originally about a review of the year and hopes for the new one). Part of my review was 'starting the beginners forum', hence the comments... Taking Stock & New Year’s Harping Resolutions
And I'll repeat my response...
Harmlessonica - I'm asking the question because, as you say, when the idea of Beginners Forum was raised over the last few years, opinion was divided. In the end, the thing got started in the wake of some very negative posts aimed at beginners. Anyone looking at the MBH right now - when it is generally settled and positive - might reasonably think 'why are there two forums?'.
There are reasons why Adam might not want to keep two forums going. There could be a dilution effect (perceived or real) that could affect his business for instance. So it's helpful tell him if we'd like to keep it.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 20, 2015 12:24 AM
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Harmlessonica
173 posts
Dec 20, 2015
5:26 AM
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It's interesting to hear the reason this forum eventually became a reality.
However, in my opinion, a forum like this should not exist simply because of negativity elsewhere. Negativity needs to be dealt with when it does arise - and it may well raise it's head in this forum too at some point (though even the fact that the forum is titled 'Beginners Forum' should prevent some of the negativity).
However, I do feel it needs a clear raison d'être and guidelines for content.
For example, there's been quite a few posts regarding the chromatic recently. I doubt most new raw beginners will have even heard of a chromatic. Most others will have come here for help on the blues harp. So a new learner might very well visit this forum and get the wrong impression about whether it's the right place for them.
As I said in the other thread... now that this forum has been started, it needs time to settle. Perhaps it also needs more promoting/links from other parts of the site. If Adam could contribute more often, that would definitely help too.
We could perhaps consider regular 'featured' articles to kickstart and encourage further participation. For example, you could post an existing free beginner's lesson from Adam and add your own experience of how the lesson worked for you, or extra tips on that technique, etc. Over time, this forum might become an archive of lesson resources; a 'Dummies Guide/Cliff Notes(?)' for the best MBH lessons.
If these featured threads appear, say, on a weekly basis, I'm sure they would encourage more traffic, participation, and indeed business for Modern blues Harmonica.
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New but determined
39 posts
Dec 20, 2015
7:24 AM
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I like it, a lot. Most of the time I only read the beginners forum, there are those with more experience posting help and comments here and it means a lot.
For me, I found the regular forum to be so far beyond what I could understand and yes often blunt in response to certain innocent comments and questions. It's good to think there's a place for everyone and i guess it boils down to what Adam wishes to achieve by making this forum possible. It's his, not ours and if we all don't find it useful, we'll look elsewhere.
I found Adam in his instructional videos and somehow that led me to this place, where I could ask questions instead of only Googling a question and hoping the answer or video was already out there.
There's a lot of different ways people learn and often the professional is not the best teacher and that's fine, but there are special people outntherebwhoncan teach in a way that it's easier to learn and this beginners forum is a good place to ask about who to learn from with the answers based upon other beginners experience.
I like it here, and I probably won't go over there to read today, or tomorrow, because it mostly doesn't apply to my stage in learning.
As a retired professional photographer I have been involved with several photography forums. It became difficult because people become internet informed with little experiential learning and present themselves as authorities and often give very segmented opinions based upon what they've read, often learned from promotion and advertising which can drive those with experience nuts. Things ranted about as needs sometimes are nearly irrevelant when it comes to developing artistry and learned skills. The Internet has become a funny thing and while I spend a lot of time learning from the Internet, I posted my title as New But Determined intentionally, realizing it's easy to be perceived as already an expert when what you really want is help. I've noticed a lot of definite attitudes when it comes to harmonica choice here but what I also learned from others more experienced here is that there is no Holy Grail even though Inwas looking for one because once you achieve a degree of skill, you'll probably choose a certain harmonica because it's the one you're most confident or comfortable playing.
That said, this is not the easiest forum to use when on a mobile device. I had lunch with a friend the other day who is a manufacturer of sporting goods and is planning new and more extensive photography for his companies website because people are relating to images more than ever on the net. Plus he told me that more than 80% of Internet viewing is done on a mobile device and they are completely redesigning their website to make that use more friendly.
Here I am unlikely to post other than to edit and extend my origional pose because it's so darn hard to get that little code right when using an iPhone, it took three tries to get this main post on and I wanted to delete the forum from my favorites list and about did, but that would just leave me UTube so I tried again. So while the beginners forum is user friendly, the actual website is not user friendly, and if you don't care then I won't either and move elsewhere.
Last Edited by New but determined on Dec 20, 2015 7:34 AM
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MindTheGap
893 posts
Dec 20, 2015
9:29 AM
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It does have a raison d'être: the centre of gravity of the main forum is around experienced players, many with decades of experience. NBD makes the point that there can be problems with newbies in that mix.
What's relevant to post here or there? That's up to us to work out. I'm a total beginner on the chromatic so posting here is fully appropriate. It's also appropriate for me to ask technical questions about the chromatic on the main forum. I think I've got that about right. But if I haven't, noone's going to die in a ditch.
If someone new posts a question that would be useful to go in the main forum, it's helpful to point that out. But it's not a prescription: check the forum code if in doubt.
I like the ideas put forward here for making this forum a more attractive proposition. Do remember there are there no 'powers that be' to do this for us, or to police it other than when things step outside the forum code. It's up to us, so if you have a good idea let's see some action!
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 20, 2015 9:33 AM
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MindTheGap
894 posts
Dec 20, 2015
9:38 AM
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NBD - the usability of the site has often been discussed, with some vehemence! I have to agree it lacks features, and the captcha code is awkward. But on the other hand it's the main (only?) game in town.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 20, 2015 9:38 AM
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MindTheGap
895 posts
Dec 20, 2015
9:43 AM
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BTW re beginners and chromatics. Well, my Dad in the 60's wanted to play harmonica in a rack like Dylan. So he was working in London (he was a photographer too, NBD) and nipped over to London's fashionable Denmark Street and they sold him a rack and a chromatic. Didn't sound like Dylan. I grew up with that family chromatic knocking around in a drawer, tried to play from time to time and wondered why it didn't sound at all like the 'blues harp' I'd hear on (by then oldie) British R&B records. D'Oh. There was no one around in my musical circles who knew anything about harps, so it was only many years later I found out about the diatonic harp and how it made That Sound.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 20, 2015 9:44 AM
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New but determined
41 posts
Dec 20, 2015
4:10 PM
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Maybe having the site a bit crude is healthy, we get so nuts about the efficiency of technology that nobody knows hot to use a hammer to pound a nail anymore (metaphorically) anyway by leaving it as it is, the corporate profits will remain the same, and membership costs down (tongue in cheek as I do appreciate it being free and without pop ups and wall to wall adds, thank you).
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Halffast
10 posts
Dec 23, 2015
6:00 AM
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I'm all for keeping it . Maybe some of you don't realize how much of a beginner some of us are . At 56 I have no musical background , no idea of musical theory , and do not read music . I just decided to pick up a harp and started trying to mimic songs I liked . This is a comfortable place to ask questions and not feel too ignorant . In fact , I would like to see some sort of " glossary " describing anything and everything pertaining to harmonicas and playing them .
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Spderyak
55 posts
Dec 28, 2015
5:37 AM
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I only lightly visit the main forum occasionally and just noticed this section a few days ago.
It seems like a good idea, seems some of the more experienced might check in from time to time to help out, constructively. Presumably those that have no interest in helping newbies won't have to wade through posts that seem "beneath" them.
That said it's a pretty common occurrence on forums
that some will always assert their wonderfulness at the expense of others...human nature I guess...
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Mirco
350 posts
Dec 28, 2015
9:02 AM
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I second Halffast's idea of a glossary. I have often thought that would be useful. People throw around terms like "gussing" or "gapping" and assume everyone knows what they mean.
(I am not asking you to tell me what these mean. I now know. But these are examples of the esoteric terminology that we use to obfuscate our meanings and surreptitiously make others feel beneath us.)
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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Ian
192 posts
Dec 28, 2015
12:40 PM
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It's definitely a good thing, having the beginners forum. The way I look at it, the basis of Adams fame and popularity come from teaching new players. Yes his provenance outside of that is serious too but let's face it, it's his youtube videos that have put him on the map. To not have a section that new players can confidently post in is crazy.
Plus it's the posts questioning the pros and cons of harps and kit which probably result in the good Google page rank.
What I don't understand is why the forum as a whole can't be categorised like every other forum online. A good example is the foe sale thread. On every other forum on the Internet these are not individual threads but sub sections in their own right... Much like this begginners section.
I guess it must be a coding thing but I can't see why? I can implement a sectioned forum on my website in minutes these days if I wanted too.
Last Edited by Ian on Dec 28, 2015 12:41 PM
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