Does anyone just buy a harmonica and play it any more ?
When I started playing harp again a few years ago, I was surprised to see all the possible gadgetry that is available to harmonica players these days. So am still learning the various terminology.
Still all the references to having to gap their harmonicas still sets me to wondering..doesn't anybody just buy a harmonica and play it anymore ? or is that just old school and a person isn't a "real harmonica player" till you can Gap, delay.. pedal.. reverb..loop de loop our harps and what not..?
Kind of a rhetorical tongue in cheek question...but what the heck.. is that what everybody is supposed to do these days..?
Last Edited by Spderyak on Jan 09, 2016 6:05 AM
Well alot of the harps i get don't play too well out of the box. The Marine band i just bought had such a big gap in the 2 draw reed that no matter now hard i played i couldn't even make it sound. So in my opinion gapping is essential. But embossing and all that kinda stuff just makes it play even better, but you don't HAVE to do it. Mess around with it and see what works for u.
But why do people hot rod their cars. Tweak out rifles. Anything you can make someone is goin to try and improve it. And in my opinion is half the fun. Although it can be a pain in the ass.
I think if you played a custom harp you would understand the night n day difference.
It doesn't make u real harmonica player. And your not a fake one of you don't customize.
Gussow barely tweaks his harps apparently. But he still gaps them out of the box. Everyone plays differently and requires different things from a harp. An analogy i used recently was, if you get into a new car would you drive it without adjusting the seat and mirrors? Gapping is just that. Adjustment to your playing.
---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
I think it's simply down to the availability of information. In the pre youtube, Internet forum days I'm sure that vast majority of amateur harp players wouldn't have touched the reeds of their harps or anything. But these days we are shown and told by the pros just what can be done with a harp. Its like that with pretty much everything!
Ian your exactly right. A second grader could build am A bomb these days. You can learn to do anything.
I often think how hard it must have been to learn harp back in the day. You had go hang out in blues clubs and pick peoples brains hoping they would tech you. Now you can get real time info from all around the world. I doubt i would have gotten This far and not given up had i not been able to have lessons like Adams, Jasons, and Ronnie 's youtube and download videos. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 09, 2016 1:00 PM
i believe players have adjusted gaps for a long time but they didnt talk about it pre-internet. and some didnt of course. there was atime when i would buy a harp and form an opinion of the brand and or model based on how well it played. maybe the irst blues harp played pretty well, and so you bought another one and that was ok too, so you figured blues harps were good. maybe you bought a third one and it was no good, and you were disappointed but figured you just got a dud. if the next one you bought was also no good you might curse and think about trying a different brand next time...and this is the kind of process which has led to all kinds of crazy opinions about the merits of various harps which are essentially the same product. now, one day i learned that harps are machines and operate according to laws of physics. what had i been thinking...magical toys that worked well or poorly according to the decree of fate? when i had this eureka moment i discovered that lots of harps i had which i found difficult to play could be adjusted to play much more easily. i felt like the veil was lifted. the lights came on. i reckon the idea that players in the 'old days' didn't adjust their harps is incorrect. i'm sure ive heard of little walter talking about the 'penny trick' (which is embossing). anyway, its so easy to adjust a harp to play well, if the stock unit is up to scratch, why wouldnt you? i read people talkng about not having time to work on their harps, they have to spend all their time practicing...frankly i have no time for that argument. your practice time will be much better spent playing an instrument which is in top shape. and you actually learn a lot about playing from learning how the harp works. its like a child's attitude i think, this expectation that the instrument is just gonna be great to play when you take it out of the box...but thats harp players...lotsa foks playing harp because they think you can just do it without having to learn anything about music, and some folks can do that. not me though
I had no idea about lil walter and the penny trick. That's very cool. I guess your right those guys would have tweaked their harps for sure. But the general player probably had no idea. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Though I know this is a Blues forum I still have a hard time thinking Doc Watson, or Little Walter spent time worrying if their harps had proper gaps in their harmonicas. Maybe Paul Butterfield did but I would be surprised. Guys like Charlie McCoy and Magic Dick are still around so we could probably just ask them. Just seems like a huge cottage industry built up over the years.
You tube has been a big help for me esp cuz I live in a rural place, but I think I threw my back out one time lunging for the delete button, when I clicked on one well known harp player and thought my computer was being hacked when he started his lessons. It was at least a year before I realized he was the latest guru of harmonicas..Oh well one step forward and two steps backwards.
My view might be a bit skewed as these days I take my lessons from a fellow who can't see, a fine player. To my knowledge he doesn't send his harps out to be properly gaped every time he buys one though I know he does send them out for repairs if necessary esp the Chromatics. ( we don't spend a lot of time on the importance of reading sheet music).
Like many others I have a mixed assortment of harps..mostly I like ones that are whisker friendly.. Any harp that doesn't snag on the whiskers certainly gets a good vote...
I certainly don't send ANYTHING out to be gapped. Gapping and reed work is really not that hard. I think you should look into doing it yourself. At the very least gapping and maybe some light arching. These things are easy to learn. Practice on an old harp. I bet if you gap it right and flat sand everything down it will pay better than any of your other harps do. People who don't are really missing out. If i put an hours worth of work into a harp i can make it play MUCH better. I often put much longer than that into them, but that's not something you have to do
My first harp that i "fully customized" plays like a dream. A MB in C. Has an Andrew Zajac comb, flat sanded and straightened reed plates, arched and gapped reeds, converted to screws, opened covers, and tuned to 19 limit Just.
It's hard to put down. I understand its alot of work, but it's worth it. Believe me. That's why people replace reeds i think. Because then you only have to gap and arch the one reed instead of starting over. But i haven't been playing long enough to blow a reed. Hopefully i never do.
But just try it on one harp. Believe me you won't regret it. It doesn't cost anything. You ve already paid for the harp. Why wouldn't you want it to perform the best it can and get your money's worth? And be able to play much better and easier? Check out kenya pollard, or andrew zajac, or any of those guys. R. Sleighs hot rod videos are good, but i feel like they re not a place to start. But rather improve. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 10, 2016 10:51 AM
From the arguments discussions on the main forum, there seems to be a division between those who like to tweak and those who play OOTB. All sorts of good reasons quoted for either approach. I saw an interview with a (actual) pro who played OOTB harps so as not to get caught short on tour if he needed to buy a replacement locally.
In the Little Walter biography, someone mentions his ability to play well even if some bits of the harp didn't work.
Having learnt to tweak (hence my handle here) more recently I don't. Part of a back to nature vibe.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 10, 2016 1:02 PM
I adjust them. I like to keep things working efficiently. Here's a link to a discussion which contains information and opinion. Some of the opinion is even informed. If you can put 2 and 2 together you can probably work out that just because no one talked about it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Little Walter for instance is notorious for secrecy regarding his playing. link to discussion with some informed opinion
No Bee. I think you're right. I just never thought about it i guess. Of course they did. I heard sonny boy II played custom harps. I even read the name of the guy who made alot of his harps, but i don't remember where i read it. And ofcourse they would have wanted to keep it secret. I wanna see what i can dig up on the subject. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
I guess I now regard it more like adjusting the action/intonation on a guitar. Something you do if it needs it. Or you might give it to someone in a shop to do. I think when I first read about tweaking, I spent some time looking for magical improvements beyond making it basically 'right'. I didn't find any magic, just an optimum then it's up to playing technique.
Maybe if I bought a highly customised harp I'd find it was magically better - that's the kind of thing I read. But I specifically want to get enjoyment out of making music on harps that cost £30 not £300 each. If £300 is what it takes, I don't want to do it.
I'm not specially swayed by what people did or didn't do in the past. But it's still interesting to know. It's fun tweaking harps and basically harmless.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 10, 2016 4:05 PM
No its not about being swayed. Just interesting. MTG you want magic buy one of andrew zajac or tom from blue moons combs, and flat sand your reed plates. That's magically different. No BS. My MB with combs I sanded are good, but the ones i bought from them are perfectly flat and make your harps tight as a bullfrogs arse. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
In the most non-confrontational way I can, I'd like to challenge the 'magical' bit. What I like about Andrew's pitch is that he doesn't claim magic - it's more about optimising, and to make the instrument do particular things you'd like it to. For instance, he mentions that embossing can sharpen up the response, but then it can make the sound more shrill, and increase the chance of a reed choking.
I guess if you yardstick is getting OBs (and why not) then there could be a definite Before and After. That would count. Myself, I was looking for magic in the difficult-but-valuable 3 draw bends, and didn't find it.
As ever, I could be wrong, and one day find I was missing out. I can only go on what I find. The harp community says with one voice (more or less) 'if you want to use a OB technique, you need to customise to some extent''. What I don't hear is 'if you want command of your 3D bends, you need to customise'. Quite the opposite - it's a strong cheer for 'work on your technique'.
Tom's combs look fantastic and you have to applaud the workmanship. I seem to remember him writing that he doesn't claim any specific improvement from them in his advertising. That seems an honest approach, I mean how would you measure that?
I like the idea that I can learn and play on stock harps with a bit of tweaking, and don't have to buy anything more fancy. If I find out that's not the case I'll be disappointed. My friend buys Dannecker harps because he can, I don't want to do that. He doesn't have to tweak, so that's good, but I don't hear anything in the playing that I can't do.
I really should get a fully custom harp and settle this in my mind once and for all. I'm thinking in this forum we have a duty to discuss these things to help other learners who will surely have the same questions.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 11, 2016 5:38 AM
Well let me refine my responce. It makes a magical difference in response and playability. You still have to be able to play. Lol
If you want to make 3 draw bends your bitch, download Adams lesson for Chicken Shack. You shouldn't need the pdf file its pretty easy to figure the notes and he goes through it with you anyways.
I didn't download it FOR that, but it turned out it made me learn em. You can't play it without em do it makes you figure it out. Highly recommended. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
kHz I can see you've gone full tilt for customising and optimising, and more power to your elbow.
I just want to put forward a different approach - based not just on my own preferences, but also repeating what I've heard many people express - that OOTB harps are very good, certainly good enough to learn on and beyond.
It's hard talking about rights and wrongs, I think either approach is totally valid. But it would be wrong to give other learners who might be tuning in (but not posting) the idea that they are hugely missing out by playing a nicely adjusted SP20 rather than a fully customised harp.
Your right MTG i should watch how i say things i suppose. Didnt really think about that. I would say if you have totally ruled out customizing Don't. If your not ready for it yet then ok. But i do believe EVERY person serious about harp should learn to gap. It is just something you need to know how to do. Ive said it before it's like adjusting your seat and mirrors in a car. Its the bare minimum to make it play like you want, but it's a little trial and error at first. But there are plent of youtube videos to help u. And if u have any questions please sign up and ask someone. Everyone would surely be glad to help advance your playing.
I forget Not everyone is hands on enough to do all the customising stuff. And even if you are it's tough to figure out how to do it as good as the proz. I'm still workin on it myself. But That's why the pros stay in buisness. But custom harps are totally NOT necessary to play harmonica well. It just makes everything you CAN already do happen a little easier. But you still have to be able to do it. It's not magic to the extent that it will make you gain skills overnight. And if you don't have basic playing skills down yet anything beyond gaping and light arching is more than likely a waste of time. Just practice. But your practice time will go alot farther with a harp that you can actually play and bend. Which is where gaping/arching comes in.
I think i said that right. I forget that this is a beginner forum aswell and raw beginners may get the wrong idea. So i apologize.
P.S. I will also try to never say Gapping again. I think I said it enough. 8^)> ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 11, 2016 10:10 AM
I'm not trying to curb your enthusiasm. And you may say gapping as much as you like :)
I'm just thinking of the poor beginners tuning in, having just bought MB and SP20s, reading that Adam uses MBs himself, and then get a sinking feeling when they read that what they really need is a custom harp!
But gapping is good, you can do it with a toothpick. Say it again! :)
Just to say the OP was a question about whether people did it in the old days, and it appears they did.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 11, 2016 10:41 AM
I just wanted to distinguish 'gapping' (adjusting offsets) from customisation. Gapping is a basic process which isn't something to 'worry about'; it's something to check if you feel the harp is hard to play, or if one chamber say seems to play differently to its neighbours. It's not a big deal. It's about making the thing work properly. More akin to pumping some air into your flat tyre than 'pimp my ride'. If you buy a set of replacement reed plates, they will need to be 'gapped' when you instal them. Lee Oskar provides some basic information with the plates. Once you have learned to set these gaps, ootb harps are much more reliable. Btw, while Adam gives a good idea how it's done, and I did follow his advice the first few times I did it, I don't think the method he shows with the paper is really the best way. A toothpick or the like is much easier and feels more controlled imho
