Killa_Hertz
325 posts
Jan 23, 2016
6:04 PM
|
I know everyone does this, but i just wanted to bring it up for conversation sake.
I ve bought quite a few different brand and model harps. And once in a while I'll pull out a random harp and sit with it a while and see how i feel about it. Usually when i pull out the Seydel Session Steels I Only play the Bb or the A. But not the C because I never much liked it for some reason. Well I figured Ide give it another shot and sat with it a bit on Thursday after work. I Can't Put It Down! Its crazy how fast your opinions can change. I think it has alot to do with me trying to play more TB as it is very comfortable for that and the chords and octaves sound Pretty good. But also the responsiveness and easy of play. I thought everyone could probably relate to this as this has happened to me more than once and Im sure it has you.
I thought this was also something important to share with any new players still in the "which harp is best" phase. Not that I'm not still muddling with it. I have just bought alot of em already .. lol. But the point is that opinion can change. So someone who thought such and such a harp was no good and may have even influenced you to not buy it, may very well be playing it by now. So don't take anyone's advice too seriously.
I also picked up my SP20 yesterday. And i forgot what a great harp it was. Still Love My Marine Bands Tho. Something about a wood comb sound just does it for me. But I may be keeping a Session Steel C or SP20 C in my pocket for a while.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 23, 2016 6:13 PM
|
Mirco
370 posts
Jan 23, 2016
7:12 PM
|
The SP20 is a reliable harp. Probably best value for your money. Good entry point for beginners, but pros can get great sound OOTB.
Suzuki Manji, however, remains the Cadillac of harmonicas.
----------
Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
|
Killa_Hertz
326 posts
Jan 23, 2016
7:18 PM
|
SP20 is always the #1 thing out of my mouth when people ask what harp to start with. I think they are the best OOTB. But i haven't tried that many, could have just got lucky. It seems MB are usually pretty bad OOTB, but i don't mind fixing em.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
Glass Harp Full
88 posts
Jan 23, 2016
11:42 PM
|
At first I didn't particularly like the Suzuki Harpmaster because I found it too small to hold comfortably and didn't think it sounded as good as the Bluesmaster. I've recently gone back to it and it's become my favourite harp in A.
It this case I think it was just a matter of adjusting to the harp. Like you said, it's interesting how opinions can change.
|
MindTheGap
1018 posts
Jan 24, 2016
12:57 AM
|
kHz - Well said. You seem to be running through the all the harmonica discoveries/syndromes/afflictions at an accelerated rate :)
I like what you said on the main forum about some of this knowledge doesn't necessarily require decades to acquire, given a reasonable degree of competence. Some of it does of course, but not all.
Just because we are beginners at harp and not necessarily great musicians (I'm referring to myself there, not anyone else) doesn't mean we are all beginners at everything, and not all ham-fisted and cack-handed :)
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 24, 2016 12:57 AM
|
SuperBee
3283 posts
Jan 24, 2016
4:16 AM
|
I had a look at a marine band deluxe today, in for repair. Very interesting...I saw the 4 draw had already been replaced...id never seen a repair like it. Of course I checked the reed shape. Mm...I've seen them like that before but a bit heavy-handed in my view...it was interesting to discover who had done the work...several years old and the repair standing up so whatever I feel about the crudity of the reed work it's not fair to judge the fellow's current standard of expertise against it...I have a more recent example in my kit and it's considerably more refined. It reminded me there is a learning curve and you're always doing your best work, but as your ability to play expands so does your understanding of other aspects of the instrument.
I've long been somewhat vociferous on the subject of my dislike of every aspect of my 5 gold promasters.
I put a Zajac comb on the one in B, cleaned the valves and messy glue out of it and already it's causing me to reevaluate my feelings about the promaster covers, which I have detested ever since our first encounter. I even ordered a couple more combs for these things. Amazing to me because I really was resigned to these being absolute lemons and I was trepidatious re spending money on a comb...I don't think they're gonna become my favourite harps but I think they can be acceptable for use in those unusual keys...I've got a B, Ab, Db, F and HiG. I guess I'll get the B, Db and High G usable. So yes even a dedicated anti-Suzuki person can mellow over time...I still don't like the reeds much but it's ok, and I confess I think it looks good with the gold covers and the 'redwine' comb...much better than the horrible...horrible!! black anodised aluminium stock comb.
I remember years ago I hated sp20...now I love them. I liked blues harps. Now I think...yeah, they're not the best but they're OK..
Who knows..maybe one day I'll like the session steel..right now I think they are the most over-rated harp on the market.
|
MindTheGap
1019 posts
Jan 24, 2016
4:42 AM
|
Do you think you could ever develop warm feelings towards Lee Oskars?
|
Rontana
270 posts
Jan 24, 2016
5:11 AM
|
I tend to not buy a lot of harps, as I'm of the opinion that any reputable harp will suffice until one reaches a baseline level of technical proficiency and control (in my mind defined as a few years of consistent practice and playing . . . and I'm not there yet). It's the same reason I don't buy pedals, customs, etc.
My musical experience has been primarily in the stringed arena (more as a builder than player) and I've told many folks that buying a Martin or National guitar won't make them a great (or even better) player. I advise them to first spend countless hours practicing on an old Stella (or anything else that is reasonably playable)
That said, I like Marine Band tone (I have one in C) but wouldn't buy too many of them due to the pain-in-the-butt nails. On philosophical/practical grounds I wouldn't pay the asking price of a Crossover or MB Deluxe. Special 20s are okay harps, as are Harpmasters and Delta Frosts (which are basically the same thing).
As for LO, I took a few months worth of lessons from a fellow in KC - Tulsa Read - who has been teaching for about 50 years and is well regarded in these parts. He loves Lee Oskars.
Last Edited by Rontana on Jan 24, 2016 5:13 AM
|
SuperBee
3284 posts
Jan 24, 2016
5:16 AM
|
haha lee oskars! what did MP say the other day?...something like 'people say they last a long time...if i liked how the look, sound, played or went together i might play them.."
when i was really starting to meet other people who played harmonica...after i came out so to speak...it seemed most of the locals were playing Lee Oskars, and i wondered if i should be too. i had decided i played Blues Harps at the time and i was reluctant to take a punt on another type....it had taken me a while to find a relatively consistent harp and LOs were $5 dearer. i'd had a bad experience with a Special 20...back when they were MS harps, and i had it in for harps with plastic combs. all quite silly nonsense on reflection but there was something of an information vacuum back then...and I'm in Tasmania...hardly a thriving hub of blues harmonica even back then...
but i knew Jim Conway played Lee Oskars and he was pretty much the only living harp player i knew...he'd even made records...i was tempted but that $5 extra was too much. there was a time when the Aussie $ was worth 48 US cents, its currently 68 or so US cents but in between we had a few years above parity...thats when i bought most of my gear and lessons and books...
but anyway, it wasn't until 2011 i actually bought a LO...and i was not blown away. it was a harp. i think i'd learned to adjust them by then...i was well into this forum i think, killing the odd thread with a comment born of ignorance...
i played it until it broke then put it away and bought a Manji. i think i liked the lee oskar more than the manji, but it was about the time i realised Sp20s were no longer the harps i had soundly rejected back in the 90s...it took me so long to discover theyd changed...i couldnt understand why people liked them...
i dont know if i could ever love a lee oskar...they do leave me rather cold in many ways, even though i acknowledge there is quite a lot to recommend them. ive just acquired a few...5 in fact, and i have a few spare reeds for them so i expect i'll repair at least a couple...
the locals still play them and i repair them...getting reeds is tricky but i acquire wrecks. and some of the reeds are close to hohner MS so i get those too. i dont mind the MS harps really but the plastic combs are not so good...and i'm reluctant to shell out on custom combs for harps about which i'm ambivalent.
see, i'm coming around a bit already. i dont really like the construction or the covers or the comb or the tuning though. the reeds are ok i think.
|
Killa_Hertz
331 posts
Jan 24, 2016
8:25 AM
|
MTG - I feel i do learn a bit fast. It's because when i get locked on something i just have to figure it out. And i spend literally every free second fixated and learning. Usually once i do figure it out i get bored. Luckily, I'm sure I'll never totally figure out the harmonica.
And i may have gone a lil far, but i was trying to make a point. I'm glad someone agreed. I also think, as you were saying, I'm making my way through the normal path. But i think maybe the path should be lit and somewhat better spelled out, for those who don't like the struggle of figuring it out on your own like me, exactly what the next step should be. For instance the other day there was a guy who was having a problem playing 2 hole draw, so he tried embossing. Idk why but that really bugged me. No where was it made clear that the two draw is tricky at first and he needs to just practice. I mean we all figured it out the hard way and there are scattered you tube vids, but how many just give up because they can't figure it out? Idk. Im probably just being crazy, but i feel the beggining could be made easier and more people would be playing. It seems like there are so many easy things that are not spread around as much as they should be. Or they are made out to be more difficult than they really are.
Bee - i agree with the suzuki reeds. No matter how much i like every other aspect of the manji. The reeds are just a lil funny i find. Also i do believe the Session Steel is over priced. You won't see my buying a new one most likely, but i already have these and their pretty good. Not twice as good as the sp20 tho. As the price would suggest.
Rotana - that's a good position to take, but i had to find out for myself.
Lee Oskars are just not good. Well that just my opinion, but i had bought a few LO after my sp20 because it's all the guitar center had .. lol. They didn't satisfy me for very long as i already knew there was atleast one better harp out there. The SP20. The reeds are plastic, to steal a phrase from MTG. (I finally realized what you ment. I took my G apart just the other day, to tune it down to LowF. Horrible time shaping the reeds.) And they are just leaky as all get out. Not a fan, no matter how many times i go back to them.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 24, 2016 8:27 AM
|
MindTheGap
1021 posts
Jan 24, 2016
8:30 AM
|
kHz I'm looking forward to the post where you say, 'I realise I love Lee Oskars' LOL :) I'm working on SuperBee...
I've got a theory about the reeds and why they are reputed to last a long time - and not coz it's leaky!!! But we've had enough physics for one weekend.
|
Killa_Hertz
333 posts
Jan 24, 2016
9:03 AM
|
Yes. Please enough with the physics.
Idk i guess with a fair amount of work any harp can be good. But it's not just the playability i don't like. Or the cheap covers. Or the plastic hard to work with reeds. The leekyness. It's all of it combined. Hopeless. But if they work for you that's cool.
I wish the blue moon SP20 combs didn't cost so much. I'm intersted to see what it would play and sound like. Not that it needs it. Man i forgot what Good harps these SP20's were. They just have a bit of that hollow sound, due to the comb i think. That why i would like to see one on a solid comb.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
SuperBee
3285 posts
Jan 24, 2016
12:25 PM
|
I have a few on solid combs. They're good but the sandwich-style isn't quite perfect due to lack of a groove for the leading edge of the cover. Tom at Blue Moon makes a solid comb for sp20 which accommodates the original recessed construction.
Neil Graham is the 'hohner affiliated' customiser in Australia. There are only 3 in the world I think; Filisko, Spiers and Graham.
I believe Neil started out by working on Lee Oskars for Jim Conway, the Australian player...Neil only works with Hohners these days and it is interesting that his top 'professional' model is based on an MS harp and is not set up for overblows. It appears to be set up for power and strength. I've seen one, sent me by my customer who breaks all the 5 draw reeds. Neil had already repaired it once. He makes his own rivets from copper wire. He makes the combs too, from Mapingo wood.
It's funny working on harps. MP told me he develops a personal relationship with the harp he is working on...maybe I know what he means. Some harps I really enjoy repairing and bringing back to life. Some I don't want to send back. Others just annoy me the whole time and I'm glad to see them go. it reminds me how my brother used to be when he had to work on a Mitsubishi or Hyundai. Almost everything about them irritated him. But servicing a Toyota was like a pleasant task for him because he appreciated the well-conceived and executed design, and even the design flaws and common failings of a Ford were just like familiar quirks he could joke about and repair without annoyance...that was his bread and butter after all. But while he could describe the common problems with the transmission in each successive Mitsubishi Magna, he never could feel good about working on one.
|
Killa_Hertz
334 posts
Jan 24, 2016
3:33 PM
|
I totally get the personal relationship with each harp thing. Each harp is different. It plays different, feels different, sounds different, reacts differently. You get a different feel out of every different harp. Even same key, same model. Still slightly different. I think that's all part of the "selfish players" topic that came up a while ago. Where people, me included, feel that their playing is something very personal that they don't necessarily want to share (totally) with anyone.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
Ian
244 posts
Jan 24, 2016
6:23 PM
|
One aspect which I think is relevant here is the tendency to revisit harps after you have improved as a player.
When you start, almost any harp will sound kinda bad and be kinda difficult to play, it's just the natural order of things. As you progress you think to yourself 'hmm, I think it's time to try something else'.
Its at that point the "maelstrom of harp confusion" kicks in and you probably start bouncing around harps, convinced you are about to hit the holy grail.
Then, as time, and your ability moves on you come back to that first harp.... And low and behold. Wow! What a great sounding harp, I better give this a try again.
And so and and so on.
Its somewhat cyclical in its nature I think.
Another angle is as you progress your play style may change, enough perhaps to make one harp work better for you than another due to hole spacing or whatever.
Finally I think a lot is from the influence of others.
You hear about the sublime sound of the 1847, the playability of the sp20, the tone of the marine band or the (fill in the gap here mtg) of the Lee oskar ;)..... So you go back to it and you convince yourself that yes you can hear it too now.
All I know is that having a few different types of harp makes for a more interesting life than just one and I enjoy playing them all..... Nearly ;)
|
Killa_Hertz
336 posts
Jan 24, 2016
7:08 PM
|
Ian that's exactly what i was saying. I think playing style, experience/level of talent, and opinions of others all play a role here.
I just think it's fun to go back and play other harps and find new things and have a new appreciation for something you may have disregarded or overlooked previously.
Also i find playing different model harps for a while can unlock different subtle nuances in your playing which you then can carry back to your other harps. For instance playing practically just the Bb Manji for the last two weeks has added different subtlies because of the way i have to play it differs from the marine band. I can also play faster on the MB now. The Manji is like training with weights on.
And sometimes you can find new licks because of the different tunings just guide you in a different direction that may have not sounded right on previous tunings, but just feel right with another. you can then carry them back to the other tunings and change it just a bit to fit, but you still have the general pattern. Atleast I have found this. Maybe im crazy.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 24, 2016 7:12 PM
|
Glass Harp Full
89 posts
Jan 25, 2016
2:25 AM
|
I've also found Lee Oskars disappointing (sorry MTG). I brought one after hearing how durable they are but it only lasted about two weeks before it started to go out of tune. I know this may have had something to do with beginners playing with too much breath force, but I didn't have this issue with any other harps. I also didn't like the way chords sounded, although I did like the single note sound.
On a recent trip to New Zealand I came across a music store with Lee Oskars on sale (NZ$45, much cheaper than I can buy them here in Australia) so I decided to give them another go. After all, I may just have got a dud the first time. I also told the guy in the store about my previous bad experience and he assured me they were durable harps. He told me one of the local pro players gave them a hammering and got 4 or 5 gigs out them before needing to replace them (I can't remember the harp player's name but the band was The Eastern). Unfortunately it's the same result: notes sounding flat and reeds choking very often after just a short time playing. And I still don't like the way the chords sound.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong because like any other harp they sound great when the pros play them, but I doubt I'll ever buy another one.
Last Edited by Glass Harp Full on Jan 25, 2016 2:38 AM
|
Killa_Hertz
340 posts
Jan 25, 2016
6:15 AM
|
Is all a matter of preference. And as your playing gets better, i believe, you preferences change. So maybe MTG will get his wish and this time next year I'll be ranting about how Good LO's are. (Wouldn't hold my breathe to buddy, sorry). Lol. My advice is try them all and try them again. Or if you find what works. If it ain't broke don't fix it. But i can't help, but to tinker.
I will say that I've never broken a harp by playing it. So durability isn't a factor for me. It's all about playability. Even if i did break reeds, i would still rather play the harp that works the best for me and replace reeds. I think. That's just me tho.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 25, 2016 6:24 AM
|
Killa_Hertz
342 posts
Jan 25, 2016
9:44 AM
|
You know what .... I wanna go back on what i said.
"" Also i do believe the Session Steel is over priced. You won't see my buying a new one most likely, but i already have these and their pretty good. Not twice as good as the sp20 tho. As the price would suggest.""
I do think the Seydel Session Steels may be worth twice a SP20. They are put together well. The reeds are tough, but very playable. The Manji has tougher reeds aswell, but it effects the playability making things a lil stiffer. (in my opinion) You always hear of SP20 reeds Blowin out, but rarely do you hear of seydel reeds failing. Could just be a numbers game, but i don't think so. It's a very well built harp. I used to have trouble going back and forth between the SSS and a MB because of the difference in hole spacing, but since my playing has advanced it seems to not be a factor anymore.
BTW ... BEE ... i Also have a pro master. I love the covers. Mine doesnt have the valves. But i don't really like the reeds in it either. They just play very soft and not very loud at all. I'm thinking of ordering a set of Manji plates for it to see how it will work then. Because i like the covers and the Comb. It seems that i love everything about all the Suzuki harps i have, accept the reeds. ...lol. the promaster is so tough i could literally shoot it out of a tank and pick it up n play it. I wonder if i could fit Marine Band Reed Plates into my Promaster And Manji. That would be my Ultimate Harp. Do you think it would work?
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
ME.HarpDoc
99 posts
Jan 25, 2016
1:25 PM
|
Killa, i don't remember if you have any Blues Session Standards. I just ordered one from Rockin' Ron's at $35 (I'm going to be teaching a Blues Harp course through adult ed and trying different harps to see which will be best OOTB for a beginner at a reasonable price. They'll be about $30 ordering 6 or more. I'm kinda honing in on a Suzuki Harpmaster or Bluesmaster but that's for another thread).
My point of interest is that a Session Steel is $60 through Ron. If and when the reed plate on the Session Standard, which is brass, needs to be replaced, only SS plates are available and the Standard will essentially be converted to a Session Steel at $29.95 for the reed plate.
|
SuperBee
3290 posts
Jan 25, 2016
1:43 PM
|
Promaster covers on a marine band? Dunno. Maybe you'd like a golden melody. I have one but I'm yet to try it.
I bought some harps from overseas, used. One of which is a golden melody with a blue moon comb. It's key of E so not my best space but I've never had a GM and price was right...though I had to go through an intermediary to get them here...seller wouldn't post overseas. No idea why. My mate in Alabama sent them on to me. They're too dirty to even blow though. And I'm too busy to clean them atm. I got a pair of F marine bands in that deal too, which is good as my F is a lone soldier...well, I have other F harps but my Marine Band 1896 is one of those 'great' ootb harps. I've had it over 3 years and the only work I've done is just adjusted a couple gaps. It is so good I resolved I was not gonna mess with it until the comb goes bad...or a reed breaks. it was a old stock clearance bargain, less than $30. And the comb is looking good. I play 3 songs in C using the harp and they are pretty vigorous renditions with band and I am so fearful one day my perfect F marine band is gonna lose a reed...so it's good to have some spares.
I don't break reeds unless I play with a band. I used to break C harps in the Muddys, because we played over 50% in G, and D harps in the Shakers, because I did a lot in A and there were a couple songs were harp killers. That's why I learned to repair my harps and why I have over 10 C harps and D harps.
I just got 5 marine bands from Spain...they are too foul to look at, let alone play...but including postage they cost less than $20 each and if the translation was right they just need gapping...they actually look pretty new but maybe the person who played them had a cold...gross!
I'm afraid the Seydel stuff...the more I look at it the less I like it. The 1847 plays pretty well though.
Back in the 80s we started seeing some stuff from GDR...it was usually quite robust but quite rough, unrefined. Motorbikes are what I remember best. They were quite functional but there wasn't much attention to detail and things would break that you normally wouldn't consider vulnerable...East German manufacturing didn't really catch on but it could be value.
I can't help but think about that every time I see a Seydel. I see ragged slots, sharp edges...I've actually cut my fingers ...twice! on Seydel products. My hypothesis is that Seydel rely on the inherent robust nature of the steel reed to make up for other failings in their process. Most of the harps I've seen with stripped threads are Seydel, and I have found a proportion of malformed screws in the harps. I've never seen a grossly malformed screw in a Suzuki or hohner. My 1847 had a burr on the reed plate which was like a razor. People complain about marine band reed plates hurting their lips...this plate would have taken the piece out of your lip...you probably couldn't have shaved with it, but only because it was too jagged to be safe.
It's this lack of attention to quality which I dislike most about Seydel harps, but also I think their brass products are particularly prone to early failure, possibly due to the reed plate being a bit thicker than most. I also think the session comb is junk. I've done precise tuning on session harps and I just dread them. You can guarantee there'll be a couple of chambers where it's impossible to get a steady pitch. I believe it's down to the comb. I've tuned a lot of harps and with the sessions it's monotonously predictable they'll be a pain to tune.
And break? Well yes they do. I have s drawerful of Seydel reed plates sent me by an Australian supplier. They have been replaced under warranty, so these are year one failures. One of the first big Seydel jobs I had was to repair 20 reed plates for a pro player, (and Seydel endorsed player ), so I can guarantee even pro players who stand by Seydel harps break Seydel steel reeds. This fellow mainly broke the 9 chamber reeds btw...that's the first position equivalent of breaking 4 draw...he also broke 4 draw in the D harps. Also interesting he only sent plates from A, Bb, C and D harps. And prior to Seydel...guess what he played? Lee Oskar. I obtained his old LO plates as part of the deal to mend the Seydel plates. Anyway, now he is a Seydel endorsed player I don't suppose I'll be doing more repairs for him...I think they look after the team with decent discounts.
I have a bunch more reasons I am not a fan of Seydel products but I am definitely out of step on the topic. And therefore I'm wrong...the things that irk me are not important to most people, just my particular neurosis.
Suzuki harps are almost the opposite of Seydel in those ways. Generally the best-finished product, though it wasn't always so, as my promasters attest. Good hardware. Good covers, well engineered. I'd like them better if they were easier to repair but they have gone the spare reed plate route so whatever. That's the main reason I don't care about them.
Hohner MS harps are pretty good these days I think. The harps from the 90s were terrible and the plastic comb models suffer from a poor comb and I don't like the blues harp comb much either because although it doesn't swell it is very brittle. They can play well enough though and I like the size. The point they fall down on though is non-available reeds.
I do understand that most people would rather the convenience of just strapping on a new reed plate as long as there was a reasonable saving...if you don't want to repair your own and you pay someone to mend them...even someone like Joe Spiers who will replace a single reed for $10 (no cleaning or tuning or other service included)....there is postage on top of that and often the harp will need a second reed within a short time...so the economics of diy reed plate replacement probably make sense to most...but not to me.
But that's me...while ver I can obtain single reeds from hohner, I will use their handmade harps.
Seydel also are very good with their approach to treating harps as non-disposable.
But yeah...in truth all the harps are quite playable. I'm really happy with my kit and I can't see any reason to change. I doubt I'll ever change...
I guess it took me 15 years to get this way though. And it was the repairs which finally settled it for me.
|
ME.HarpDoc
101 posts
Jan 25, 2016
5:00 PM
|
@ SuperBee
Go on Seydel's website and read their history. Their production was dismal under communist rule and the company was insolvent as late as 2004. Since then they have been determined to get back to the highest quality. Retooling and growing pains may have caused some problems. I only have one session steel in F and it's an exquisite harp (less than a year old). Haven't taken it apart to observe if any of the issues you raise have occurred.
|
Ian
247 posts
Jan 25, 2016
5:50 PM
|
Sorry, still a bit ot, carrying in with the seydel thing..... I have one 1847 classic and it's good but not worth the money they ask for it.
Its very close to a marine band deluxe but with a slightly different tone.
The gapping was terrible ootb for an instrument that would clearly be targeted at people who would most likely want a responsive and overblow friendly harp.
After an exhaustive gapping period (that steel loves to spring back) I have it playing how I'd like and it does feel great now but I think thats more due to the time I put in to it, far more than any other harp.
|
Killa_Hertz
345 posts
Jan 25, 2016
7:38 PM
|
Well ok now that we know how everyone feels about seydel ... lol. The point was .. is there a harp you totally wrote off bit now love?
As far as the SS combs go ... i think all the hollow recessed plastic combs suck. They resonate wrong or something. They just don't sound/feel right. But getting over that the Session Steel and SP20 are pretty solid harps.
Anyone tried the delta frost w/ wood comb??
I think imma take my metal comb off the promaster and fit it to the Manji. See how that sounds.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 25, 2016 7:39 PM
|
Ian
249 posts
Jan 26, 2016
7:04 AM
|
Yep.. The marine band... All the marine bands in fact.
At first I felt they were cheaply made and old fashioned (not in a good way). I pretty much wrote them off.
I now love the tin sandwich marine bands (sp20 I could give or take).
Crossover and deluxe for the win (mainly cos I don't have the time to customise the 1896).
|
Killa_Hertz
354 posts
Jan 26, 2016
9:35 AM
|
I didnt like my first MB either. I don't think it's a harp for raw beginners. You have to grow into it i think.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
Fil
98 posts
Jan 26, 2016
10:18 AM
|
I've nothing of significance to add here, but won't let that stop me....
My first harp was a C Blues Harp that I think came in the J. Gindick starter pack my buddies sent me some 20 years ago. Based on virtually total ignorance, I replaced it with a Sp20 because I figured the plastic comb would be more durable. Liked it and filled out the keys with Sp20's. I ended up putting the whole shebang away for 16 years until I retired. I've been playing hard since then with zero issues, occasionally gapping one reed or another and keeping them clean. I haven't had the urge to start on a search for a better harp because my quest has been to become a better Harper and the Sp20's seem to be a more than adequate means to that end. I'll reward myself at the end with a custom, maybe. I have had the urge to expand with amps and mics, cables, adapters, jam tracks, etc.,though, only barely restrained.
----------
Phil Pennington
|
Killa_Hertz
370 posts
Jan 27, 2016
1:10 PM
|
Other harps are not NEEDED, but I like comparing ... especially if im having an issue. I can see if it's the harp or me. I pretty well can tell by now, but i also find different harps are better for different things and playing styles styles
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 27, 2016 1:11 PM
|
Ian
294 posts
Feb 11, 2016
4:22 PM
|
I'm revisiting this thread because I have fallen in love with my seydel 1847 classic...
After initially really struggling to appreciate the harp, and after exhaustive gapping etc I left it to one side, concentrating on playing manjis and marine bands.
I played it today and it's magically just got kinda brilliant.
Everything about it has become more solid, cleaner, sharper.
The overblow on 6 is ridiculously easy to play. The bends are tight.
The harp fairy must have been busy!
I'm guessing that the reeds just settled in a bit. Shame they are so pricey as a doubt I'll be buying more anytime soon.
However, I will still stand by my original gripe in that a harp that's so expensive should be gapped tighter ootb (as its clearly marketed towards more experienced players who would want a responsive play style) .
That is all....
|
Killa_Hertz
514 posts
Feb 11, 2016
5:07 PM
|
I think that is your experience and skill that changes. And as you grow you also want different things from a harp. That's why i routinely play random models of harps from time to time. Sometimes this ends up diving me crazy, but whatever.
I'm suprised to hear you say the manji as my experiences were different. I thought the same thing about the 1847 tho. I originally thought a harp so expensive should be great ootb. But now know it's just the way it is.
My manji i struggled with. It s just so different from hohner models and seydel models aswell. I also only have one. So i could have got a funny one. But i kept working with it and on it. Recently put one of toms Hogany combs. From blue moon. It's incredible. Not just the function, but the look and the feel. It's a solid comb with some weight to it. surprising for a polymer comb. But anyways it plays great now. Partly due to me learning how it plays and getting used to it. Its now one of my favorite harps. But either way i had a learning curve With it. Where as the 1847 i did not. I find the 1847 plays like a bigger version of a customish marine band. I guess is the best i could describe it. The reeds play with very little effort. Even more so than the hohners i find. The manji seems to need to be played wuth purpose. Not harder necessarily, but with a bit of attack. Notes played with intention.
Anyways this is my experience. It may be way off of what others think, but .....
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
Ian
295 posts
Feb 12, 2016
3:55 AM
|
Although in the main I agree with you, that as experience changes your appreciation of different harps varies.
However...
This is a case of no more than a month between indifference and appreciation.
The harp really has settled in and the reeds have found a perfect position.
Like i said.... Harp fairies.
|
New but determined
65 posts
Feb 12, 2016
10:07 AM
|
Fabulous thread. I kind of stopped playing from frustration a couple of weeks ago. On a whim I can't to this forum and this thread.
Picking up one of my Crossovers my first thought was wow, that's kind of loud, but nice. But because of this thread I grabbed my Manji in A and started playing. I had been thinking of giving my whole set of five Manji's to a friend who's a really great performer and who plays LO's, but had expressed interest in the Manji's.
The first thing I noticed about the Manji was that I had to blow a little harder, but after one pass through Amazing Grace I was falling in love with the sound and how it played. So then I grabbed my least favorite harp which is a Manji in D. Now I've sanded flat all of the combs and the draw plates in these as well as recapping many times all of the Manji reeds but still the Crossovers were my favorites. OH My Goddess the Manji D is wonderful!!! Then I played the same thing on the Manji low C and was in love, but I still can't bend the 1 or 2 draw.
So I'm pretty jazzed to get back to playing and learning, thanks for all of your wonderful posts- I'm going to go play with my SP20's and see what happens.
|
Killa_Hertz
523 posts
Feb 12, 2016
3:55 PM
|
NBD .... i know EXACTLY how you feel. Same thing happened to me. That's funny. I loved the sound of the manji. I loved its construction and style. I just couldn't get it to play right no matter how much i worked on it. But i think it was me that needed the working.
No matter how many times i put it down n went back to the marine band, i always went back to the manji n tried it again. I was determined to get it to play right. But i think instead of breaking it in, it broke me in. Lol. Anyways i just thought it was funny that you had the same experience. It's a great harp. N now one of my favorites. I just put a Hogany blue moon comb on it. Its fantastic.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
