MindTheGap
1075 posts
Jan 31, 2016
4:55 AM
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...I didn't like it.
I thought it was rough to the lips and didn't play very well as it stood. Why do you like these so much? Is it because you can use them as a basis to personalise and make good? Is it because of the heritage and history?? Is it the nails??? Got shares in a lip-balm company????
I saw a harp player years ago in Manchester - well before knowing anything about them. I do remember noticing he kept his harp in a pint glass of water, I assumed it was to clean out the spit, but now I know he must have thought that's the only way he could get it to play properly.
C'mon lets get some partisan, biased, debate going! :)
Sell me a Marine Band (metaphorically I mean).
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 31, 2016 4:58 AM
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Killa_Hertz
394 posts
Jan 31, 2016
8:48 AM
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I didnt like my first one either. I think the sandwich style in general takes some getting used to at first.
My first one was extremely sharp. (atleast it felt that way at the time)
I took the covers off and rounded all the edges. The fronts and the seam where it comes together in the corners until it was all nice n smoothed out. Then did the same to the reed plates. (Still on the comb) Take a file to start the job. Just hit it all real quick to knock the edges down. Then take a dremel with a wire wheel and round everything of good. The cover corners (where the gap and seam is) can actually be closed with the wheel and made pretty nice if you work the metal right.
Then i take a file. And hit the edges of the tines in the comb. I do this without taking the plates off.
But eventually i convert them all to screws. And then either do some real sanding to the comb and seal it with lacker spray. Or put a custom comb on em. Then tune em, "unbeat" the octaves, flat sand, arch/shape the reeds, since I've got it apart.
I guess if you don't want to do all that a Marine Band Deluxe is a good option. I just really liked the sound of them. And how small and thin they were compared to other harps. And the hohner reeds are so much easier to play.
I'm really starting to come full circle back to the recessed plate harps. Also liking the more mellow tunings a bit more. Like the Suzuki tuning in the Manji. The Seydel Session Steels aren't tuned mellow (i don't think) but they have a more mellow sound. I'm thinking of taking a SP20 and trying to tune it to one of these stock tunings. Probably the Manji tuning. But the Crossover is similarly nellow tuned and still has a raspyish tone, so maybe it has more to do with the reeds. Idk. A little off topic,but they're you have it.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 31, 2016 8:58 AM
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Killa_Hertz
395 posts
Jan 31, 2016
9:01 AM
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Ive been playing all my different model harps trying to decide which i like best. More and more im finding it harder to pick. I think the better you get the less it matters. Because harps that i couldn't play that well before, i have no problem With now. Idk. It s wierd.
It kind of boils down to comfort now more than anything.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 31, 2016 9:02 AM
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SuperBee
3327 posts
Jan 31, 2016
1:53 PM
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they are the heart of the game. It's all about the soul man.
I've converted quite a few to aftermarket combs but I also have some stock. My gigging F, Ab, Eb, and Bb are all still nailed and only the Bb has the current production comb so I've had them all a few years. I also carry a Spiers Bb so I guess that standard marine band is a backup. But my Low F is a stock thunderbird, my G is a Spiers and backup is a crossover, my A is a crossover and a Hall custom backup, although not really sure which is the backup there. I think the crossover may need attention. My C is the same, Crossover and Hall custom, Ditto the D. And the E is a standard sp20.
My other 50 or so harps are marine bands and sp20s mainly, works in progress, just not quite as good. Even some of the customs from other builders I feel aren't as good as my own work, so they are in the pile that need work. When I get one really nice, I move it into the gig set...or maybe when one in the gig set stops being so good I replace it.
I do love the marine band. To me everything else is a variation on a marine band and it's the heart.
There has to be a reason all those customisers use it as the basis for their work. I know they all produce other models too, but it seems to me the marine band is the main starting point model for the great customs.
Truly, all harps are rubbish; that's they're nature. And they break. I used to break a lot. Now not so many but I bet if I start gigging again I'll break harps.
Marine bands are the most easily improved and repaired and most reasonably priced.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jan 31, 2016 1:58 PM
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Harmlessonica
180 posts
Jan 31, 2016
2:33 PM
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Wow, sacrilege from MTG? The end is nigh!
:)
I don't own a Marine Band, but I've always been curious to try one. Part of me thinks that if I start playing Marine Band, I'll suddenly sound like Adam Gussow - and the other part of me thinks that as long as I never try one, it'll keep the dream alive... :/
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Ian
260 posts
Jan 31, 2016
4:25 PM
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I don't like the 1896 stock, they feel uncomfortable, because if the comb.
But I like the size, shape, playability and tone of the marine band so thats why I gravitate towards the crossover and the deluxe.
When I'm a better player I'll get a full custom, and I'd imagine it will be a 1896 base.
If I had the time and inclination I'd buy stock 1896 harps and jazz them up to a deluxe standard..... But I can't be bothered really.
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Rontana
279 posts
Jan 31, 2016
6:21 PM
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"Truly, all harps are rubbish; that's they're nature. And they break."
@ Superbee. Classic. Truer words have never been spoken. Harps are flimsy little things that go belly up with the slightest provocation. Even brand new they're downright elderly . . . look at them funny and they break.
But they sure are fun. I was playing 20s for my first year in a half, and then bought a gently used Marine Band in C off the forum. Amazingly, the reed plates and comb no longer bothered my lips. I reckon my technique had improved a little.
But man, the frickin' tone is great. I've come to love that stupid harp . . . and surprisingly it's still going strong after a few months of hard playing. My "Crossroads" is actually starting to come along.
So they've got nails . . . big deal. They're not that much less fragile than something costing 3x as much
Last Edited by Rontana on Jan 31, 2016 6:26 PM
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MindTheGap
1080 posts
Feb 01, 2016
12:06 AM
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Harmlessonica - I like your thinking!
Thanks all. I'm being devil's advocate to some extent - the fact that many people love them shows there must be something particularly good in them.
If I had more free time, I'd like to get some and make them more comfortable. That's useful info, kHz. I don't have a drill press so I could imagine converting to screws might be a bit tricky.
As I've expressed before: at least for me, there's no magic difference between any (quality) harps models I've tried in terms of playability - but there are real details (Lee Oskar squeal for instance, or temperament). Mainly it's all about price, practicality and comfort.
A common theme on the main forum is that beginners spend too much time fretting about equipment, and that's only a valid concern for experienced players. But there are choices to be made, you have to experience things for yourself, and (in learning any other instrument) the advice is ALWAYS to buy the best instrument you can afford. The problem with harp choices is that it's not clear what the best might be.
I think it's likely that the BEST harp to learn on is not the most expensive OOTB harp, but one that's is sensibly personalised for playing style and comfort.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 01, 2016 12:23 AM
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Killa_Hertz
400 posts
Feb 01, 2016
4:24 AM
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Ron. .. that's kind what happened to me. My first one i filed down. Now i can pretty much play em ootb with just some gapping. I think they ate an aquired taste. But popular for good reason.
Well said MTG ... better harps are prolly only needed by pro players. BUT i think it has to be learned for yourself. You have to try em all before you know what you like. Having said that, as you gain more experience, your needs change. For instance playing more TB changed my opinions a bit. I would say that If you have the means, buy one of every model you can and try them all frequently to see if your playing the best harp for you.
But MTG if you get the time to customize it, let me know i can give you some pointers that i learned the hard way. BTW i just use my cheap harbor freight drill press. And im not one for cheap tools, but it's better than nothing.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Feb 01, 2016 4:26 AM
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Crawforde
52 posts
Feb 01, 2016
5:22 AM
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I converted an old chromatic to screws and do not have a drill press.
To start I prayed out one nail, drilled and tapped the hole and put in a screw, did them all like that, one at a time, no power tools at all just 2 drill bits and a tap and a couple pin vices for handles. I played it a bit after each screw to make sure everything was good. if you do it this way the holes will line themselves up, and you know they are all good. I used SS 2-56 Philips heads.
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MindTheGap
1084 posts
Feb 01, 2016
5:44 AM
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Ok, thanks. Makes sense.
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Killa_Hertz
402 posts
Feb 01, 2016
6:15 AM
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Yes that's one of the things i learned the hard way. One at a time. Taking it all apart at once doesn't work to well. But i tap all at once after i have doled all holes. But i suppose it Doesnt really matter.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Spderyak
69 posts
Feb 01, 2016
10:23 AM
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I did see a reference to the glass of water. That's way old school for sure. I remember ruining a few harps that way till I learned for myself not to do that some 30 yrs ago.
These days I bought a marine band with the nails etc didn't notice anything unusual about it.
I'm more of a harp is a harp is a harp.
I find the 20's a bit thin and what not but really there most all the same to me. Perhaps I'll get favorites later on, I like golden melodys, lee oskar, blues harp, think I have a sydel somewhere...
Seems some brands sound good on one tune another for another tune an what not.
So nothing on the 1896 really one way or another...as long as it doesn't pull any whiskers..that's where I draw the line on any harp. heh heh
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Harmlessonica
181 posts
Feb 02, 2016
2:12 AM
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I was pretty sure I read somewhere that the tuning on the marine bands is slightly different though... is that the case? Maybe just intonation or something for the old school sound. ..
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