...Listen to the trumpet and trombone at the start. That bite to the note, is that actually the sound we are trying to get through mic and amp??? I don't mean exactly, but that element. It just struck me, that that's a feature I've been listening out for.
Interesting. I only listened to about 20 seconds of it. But that's all i needed to hear. I knew harp covered horn lines. And that sometimes we try to sound like a horn section. I never realized that it was all the time. Honestly if you didn't know that was a horn you would have asked what kinda amp/mic/gear he was using. Lol. I mean there is that hint of horn in the sound still, but overall Thats It.
Interesting MTG ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
So what you're basically saying is we picked the wrong instrument and we will now spend the rest of our lives reverse engineering our sound until it sounds like a trumpet. Uh oh.... ;)
Ha! No, not really - although when people are praising other's tone they do often say how much it sounds like something else. If you look at the harmonic signature of an acoustic harp, I think it's closest to a clarinet if you had to choose anything - coz of the importance of the 3rd harmonic.
I was more saying that (as kHz says) it reminds of the prized, crackly-edged, bitey sound of a harp/mic/tube amp.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 06, 2016 6:05 AM
Ive actually been interested in learning the horn lately. It's only got 3 buttons how hard could it be right? RIIIIIIIGHT.
lol. Seriously tho i want to learn how to play it. But one thing at a time. This video actually is quite inspiring. They sound good. Just jamin. I should really start listening to horn more. There are some good licks in there that you could easily transfer to harp. I would like to play the horn parts on harp in a band setting. That would be awesome. Thanks for bringing this up MTG. Really got my wheels turning. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
I think I actually prefer the sound of acoustic amplified harp, when I really think about it.... When I think about what brought me to the harp in the first place. Phil Wiggins remains one of my favourite players.
Sonny Boy Williamson 2. He was the one who did it for me. SBW II. is great. Simple yet complex. I know what you mean about liking acoustic, But i feel it is very limiting. Meaning that there is so much more to the harp. I like all the sounds. I like the artist who play all the styles aswell. Ronnie Shellist is one who tends to mix it up. Acoustic. Crunchy. Heavy Distortion. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Killa. I agree that acoustic can be limiting. But i think your limiting your limiting :-). Each format has its limitations. Shellist does wonders both amplified and acoustic (although i remember Jinx saying he didn't stay in the pocket. i would disagree). The horn sound in the above version is great but not what i would personally favor (I like the sound of Butterfield amped). The amplified limitation is not being able to get significant hand effects and wah wahs. (although Gruenling does pretty well). Look at the range Jason Ricci has both acoustic and amplified with effects. The nice thing about the harp is there's something for all of us.
Last Edited by ME.HarpDoc on Feb 06, 2016 2:54 PM
Nice video, to me it sounds like new orleans style music. I like the sound of it but I don't mind sounding like a harmonica when I play. I practice a few songs where the harp matches the horn riffs, but each one sounds like it's own instrument. I figure it's the player who gives their playing the bite or nice sharp licks or muted sounds. For others it might be all about the mic an amp they use.
Sometime you hear a player and think they sound just like Dave Barret (sp?) . For myself though I would prefer to sound like myself ,rather than somebody else so I admire their style but don't quite gravitate to it or necessarily copy their equipment to get the sound.
Oh there no doubt that I have a place in my heart for both amplified and acoustic. I was just saying that the sound that brought me to harp was acoustic, I discovered amplified harp later. If you listen to some acoustic cephas and Wiggins the dirt and crunch Phil gets from an acoustic setup is crazy, it's got an authentic bluesy feel that I love. No hiding behind distortion or effects.
The beauty of the harp that it is such a varied sound.... Trumpet , sax, guitar, voice, percussion.... Train! .... It can do it all.
Cephas and Wiggins are great. This is off topic, but if you haven't heard the album Taboo by Bob Corritore. Get it. It's all instrumental, but it's fantastic.
I agreed With him on that specific video. It seemed like that was the first time they played together. Ronnie was just playing his song. Not really reacting to where the guitar player was. Perhaps a bad choice of video.
However someone else posted another video in a different thread. Of the same event. And in that one they were on point. It was him and the same woman on guitar. I think the first one must have been the very first song they played that evening and together at all. I mean everyone isn't perfect all the time. And im judging based on the caliber of the player. If it were a video of some random person i would have thought it was excellent. But i know ronnie is better than that. They were just off for that song. Jinx was a bit harsh tho.
If it were a little walter video he wouldn't have said shit. But i find that when the person is still alive people tend to hate. Prolly because they know they suck and they ll never be as good And nobody wants to buy or even listen to their so called albums because they play the same tired ass riffs and sing like Mr. Rogers with their Okey Doke Blues. Nobody wants to hear that shit. While Ronnie is a monster. So Haters gonna Hate. Whatcha gonna do?
Sorry, that got a lil dark. Lol. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Ha ha jinxey..some one named him a 'tolerated troll' one time...and immediately withdrew it as it was not cool to do so...but if you follow the members for a while you notice folks have their own likes and dislikes. I agrre with the Jinx on some things, not all, and he is somrtimes rather harsher than i would be... I dunno killa, what you posted above put me in mind of one member who records prolifically... I cant listen to it either, and i find the themes of his posts generally make me weary, but i have nothing but respect for that man.
Lol. I was just talkin smack. I don't really care what anybody does. It's just funny.
Besides people on here are a bit sensitive i think. Where i come from talkin Ish is just part of a man's vocabulary.
I know it's in the interest of not wanting to hear (or read) people argue all day. But i find sly little condescending remarks(not in short supply on this forum) more agrivating than anything. Ide rather someone just tell me to go ef myself. Little smart mouth comments get people smacked in the teeth around my way. Lol.
Sorry. At it again. Don't pay attention to me. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Feb 06, 2016 2:49 PM
MTG, I first read your Original question and reference to bite as concerning precision, not so much timbre. I'm with Ian about wanting to sound like a harmonica, and I think precision is required. Even when the effect seems casual and improvised, the timing (respect to BBQ Bob) and precision that Tuba Skinny demonstrate is really good. I'm working off and on on Lowdown, Kim Wilson's. I can manage a reasonable facsimile of parts of it, but when I record myself I sure don't seem to have captured anything near his crispness and precision in tone, timing, and color. He makes it sound easy, but it's not. IMHO, anyway. ---------- Phil Pennington
Fil - you rang a bell with me there. I remember when I first found Lowdown as piece to work on, and was happy with myself for working out the phrases coz it's full of good ones. It was at that time I started recording myself and - oh dear. WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT! What I recorded was a pale, thin, weak version of what was going on in my head - possibly even what I was actually hearing with my ears. That was the wake-up call and the moment when I started to take the instrument seriously.
That feeling of 'oh dear' hasn't left me since, despite objective improvements. I'll probably never shake it now.
Good grief what a great post (yours I mean).
But as to the OP, yes I was specifically talking about the timbre.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 07, 2016 8:44 AM
...and as for precision, what I've come to understand is that even the apparent sloppiness, that makes blues harp sounds like blues harp, has precision. The added grit, and latitude with respect to timing (on/behing/ahead of the beat), has to be just so.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 07, 2016 11:03 AM
You nailed it. "... what I've come to understand is that even the apparent sloppiness, that makes blues harp sounds like blues harp, has precision." Grit, latitude with precision. I tried to convey it with "color". There's my goal, to play Blues Harp with sloppy, gritty, 'latitudinous' precision. ---------- Phil Pennington
Last Edited by Fil on Feb 07, 2016 12:07 PM
MTG, the first song on this link, "Found My Baby Gone", with Good Rockin' Charles Edwards on the harp, pretty much exemplifies the kind of precision we were talking about above. To me, at least. I've been working on it hard. He takes a simple riff and works it, varies it, changes intensity. I managed to find the original cd used. It's not on iTunes or Amazon to download. The whole cd is great. Fil ----------http://youtu.be/Rd3MNTb1gZs Phil Pennington
Fil, yes that's it. This morning I was inspired by your track there to quickly record something based on some of the things I heard in it. I really like those solid solos built up around just the 2, 3 and 4 draw, with a nod to the IV chord with the 4 blow.
What I'm really after is that mix between playing squarely on the beat, and then loosening it up in places. And not straying too far from the main, simple idea. Meat and potatoes. I've not got it down yet. This is the work in progress. But it's becoming a bit clearer what to aim for.
I'm playing acoustically here, softly, as it was early in the morning. So it sounds a bit weedy to my ears listening again now, but I know that this intensity can sound much stronger through cupped mic & amp.
Mtg, we are away from home. If I can figure out BOX on return I'll shoot a track back to you. In the meantime I'm impressed that you could get something good up so quickly. ---------- Phil Pennington
