Sundancer
129 posts
Jul 19, 2017
4:33 PM
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Hola. I'm trying to learn St. Louis Blues and Yesterday. Both require a half step bent 6 hole draw. I can get all the draw bends on 1,2,3 & 4, but when I try the -6' no matter how I move my throat, tongue or mouth I pretty much just get a regular 6 draw. Any & all words of advice will be much appreciated. Gracias.
Last Edited by Sundancer on Jul 19, 2017 4:53 PM
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SuperBee
4810 posts
Jul 19, 2017
7:22 PM
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Which key harp? Any and all?
I have at times had trouble with the 6'.
Sometimes 'it's the harp'
Sometimes I found I could hit it in some contexts and not others, so I studied what was different
But I just was working on some harps and in testing found I couldn't get the 6' to my satisfaction. Key of D Manji. On inspection it seemed the reeds could stand to be set a little closer. That cured it. I didn't have to move them far. Often it's only a thousandth or 2 to make a difference. And sometimes just one of the reeds. Not necessarily the draw reed.
But embouchure could be the villain too. With these higher bends the problem can often be too much change. Just try making the changes very gradually and see if you get some action. I'm sure you'll crack the nut if you focus on it
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SuperBee
4811 posts
Jul 19, 2017
7:23 PM
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How are you on blow bends?
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Sundancer
131 posts
Jul 20, 2017
12:28 PM
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Hey SuperBee - first off, let me say how much I enjoy your postings & videos. You are a cool player and a thoughtful poster. Plus, you live in Tassie and I sorely wish I'd visited there when I lived in Sydney. My loss, but long live the Thylacine!!
Funny that you mentioned blow bends. The version of Yesterday I'm learning also needs a 5 blow band. Can't get it either. When can get both 5 blow bend and -6' In my kit bag I think I will have made a nice leap in my playing.
Last Edited by Sundancer on Jul 20, 2017 3:20 PM
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SkullKid
70 posts
Jul 20, 2017
3:14 PM
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Hey Sundancer,
Not sure if this helps but I discovered that to get the six draw bend, my mouth position and airflow had to be very similar to the "setup" that I use for the 3 draw half step bend. Also, the key is to use very little force. Hope you can also get it this way.
Skull
Last Edited by SkullKid on Jul 20, 2017 3:15 PM
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Sundancer
133 posts
Jul 20, 2017
3:22 PM
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SkullKid - aha! That method has some merit - trying it now and getting very close I think. Previously I was trying a technique much more akin to a -4'. Yours is much better - thanks!!
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SkullKid
72 posts
Jul 20, 2017
3:35 PM
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Great to hear, I hope you can get it soon!
After trying it for myself again, I think the most helpful similarity to the 3 hole draw half step bend is actually that it feels like it's happening more in the front of your mouth - unlike the 2 hole draw full step bend for example, which feels more like it's coming from the throat.
Oh, I also realized that by "little force" I don't (only) mean force of breath but actually "bending energy", if you know what I mean. :P
Last Edited by SkullKid on Jul 20, 2017 3:50 PM
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SuperBee
4819 posts
Jul 22, 2017
8:00 PM
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Hi Sundancer, that may be the nicest thing ever said to me on this forum.
Sadly, I've lost almost all optimism for survival of the thylacine. They were scarce by the time my parents were born, which is over 90 years ago now. No confirmed sightings for 80 years. I've been out in some fairly remote bush in my younger years and never met anyone who claimed to have seen one. I really think they're gone.
And all attention is now on saving the Devil from this rotten facial tumour disease. We've established some isolated disease free populations and some individuals seem to have immunity so I think there is reason to be hopeful.
But to the case of 6':
David Barrett has a bending lesson using a song called 'the strut'. It's key of A, using a D harp.
Chorus 6 is the thing.
If you are ok with draw bends, I recommend this song as a study.
By the time you get to chorus 6 you'll be going along pretty well.
This chorus begins with a slap to wAil on 5 -6 draw double stop. Then shut that down to just the 5 draw (I think I do a lift and slap) which is then bent, and slide to 4 draw which is also immediately bent, then slide to 3 draw, again bent (to the whole step), and same again to 2 draw, and bendvto the whole step before sliding to 1 draw.
Then there is a filler Lick which is +2 2 1 1' to complete the 4th measure
Measures 5 - 8 are very similar except the initial wAil on 5/6 is replaced with a shake, but then the same slide to 1 draw via each chamber plus the bend. The filler lick is different at the end +2 +3 +3 +2 3' 2 2 2
But the kicker is in measures 9 - 12
4, 6 6' +6 5, 4 4' +4 3, 2 2" 1 1', +1 1 2 2
Actually that initial 4 draw is the last half beat of measure 8, a slight pickup note.
I've used this phrase when I recorded 'broken refrigerator blues' with the muddy turds, but don't tell anyone. I was desperately trying to sound like a harp player who had some clue, on acrecord which demonstrated no clue at all.
Anyway apart from being a nice demo of how you can turn a great practice routine into a song (one of mr Barrett's great talents I believe), that 6' was a problem for me. But in dealing with it I think I learned a lot to take me forward. So I recommend it to you.
David of course charges for access to his site and the backing tracks and transcripts and his tutorial videos. I can't help with the videos but I do have the rest of the material. I don't know if you have access to his site?
Maybe they still do the one month trial access when you buy a hohner harp? I don't know. I have supported the site for 7 years now, because it's such a great resource and I want it to remain available.
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Sundancer
138 posts
Jul 24, 2017
4:25 PM
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Hey SuperBee - thanks. The appeal of Barrett's site is strong, but I'm not quite ready to take that plunge because I'm not completely happy with where I am on my lip pursing. So not ready to commit 100% to learning tongue blocking. But I will do it at some point - maybe I'll be ready in 20018.
After a bit of work I'm now able to get the -6' pretty easily on both A & D Harps using the same airflow as a -4'. Can get it a bit on a Bb and barely on a C. Gotta keep pushing. And I'm moving along on St. Louis Blues as well. What a great song. When I get it to where I'm happy with my performance I will try to figure out how to post it from an iPhone using Voice Memos, which is my only recording app - don't own a PC. Adios.
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Killa_Hertz
2392 posts
Jul 26, 2017
2:44 AM
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I'm not sure anybody caught the "5 blow bend" comment.
5 blow doesn't "blow bend" exactly. That would be an overblow. Something I'm not very good with myself. I just thought I would mention it before you continue pulling your hair out.... lol.
Overblows are tough and a technique all their own.
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Truth2012
64 posts
Jul 26, 2017
9:11 AM
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Hi Sundancer
Are you learning Adams transcription of St Louis blues?
If so there is a 6 overblow in it which is a little tricky.
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Sundancer
139 posts
Jul 26, 2017
2:43 PM
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Truth - I'm using the David Hebert version - no OB, just the tricky -6'
I really like this!
> https://youtu.be/ho0_wW7QR18 <
I think this version is the same. She's good!
>https://youtu.be/2ZgFypCRwmY <
Sorry if ya can't click straight to links - I have to do this from an iPad and can't seem to get direct links to import. If ya know the secret to that please share it with me. Adios
Last Edited by Sundancer on Jul 26, 2017 2:48 PM
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