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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
Jumping on a Moving Train
Jumping on a Moving Train
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MindTheGap
2442 posts
Jan 05, 2018
3:00 AM
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Following Killa's story of his first time on stage, where he didn't play what he wanted to...I'm interested in a discussion about the problem of practising something new at home, then failing to play it with the band.
This happens a lot, and it's frustrating. My bandmates say they have it too. At a certain level of proficiency you can fake it and play something else. No one else knows or cares but yourself, but still it's important. How else do you move forward.
I can choose how much home practice I do, but I've only got a few hours a week rehearsing with the band and I can't hijack that time.
Any hints, tips, hacks, sympathies?
Oh yes, by 'Jumping on Moving Train' I mean the feeling that your new bit is coming up...here it comes...aaagh....missed it..it's gone...play something else...
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 05, 2018 3:05 AM
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Fil
365 posts
Jan 05, 2018
5:37 AM
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I struggle with it also, and hope a good discussion gets going. I’ve found that the more familiar I am with the lyrics, whether I sing them or not, and treat the harp solo as another verse of the song rather than in isolation, the better it goes. I’ll sing the verse just prior to the solo and then solo, repeatedly, once I’ve gotten the solo down. Aloud and with harp as well in my mind (eg, laying awake at night...). Try to lock in the transition and make it as much a reflex as I can. Seems like once it’s there it’s there, with occasional refreshers. Easier said than done.
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Phil Pennington
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Phil Pennington
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SuperBee
5174 posts
Jan 05, 2018
6:19 PM
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I’m not sure I’m fully with the topic, but maybe.
I think I understand the frustration;
Like when I decided to pick up a couple of LW solos to use in a particular number, and here it is at practice but they don’t throw me a solo, or they have changed the groove or tempo and now the things I had planned sound laboured or the reverse, I can’t play those triplets that fast.
I tell you what I do. I take those things and try to adapt them to go somewhere else
I have a few set pieces I’ve copied and instead of playing them with the songs I took them from, I try them with different songs. They’ll need some adaptation at times. That’s ok. It’s one way to make new things. Maybe not the most creative way, but a way.
Does depend somewhat on circumstances though
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Killa_Hertz
2454 posts
Jan 06, 2018
1:04 PM
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MTG... haha, I like the moving train analogy. It felt alot like that. Fortunately I was able to just play and wasn't a total wreck. I was kindof playing standard blues shtick trying to think of how the darn song went and how I was going to work it in without dropping the ball. It's like juggling. You can't just stop and start over ... lol. Like you said, no one noticed and infact many said how well I played, but it was still annoying. Because I knew that I had not done what I was supposed to. And also had I actually nailed the boogie it would have been very cool. Infact the things I was playing were not even things I would normally play. It was very weird ... like an out of body experience. My mouth was just playing things while I was thinking about something else entirely. Very strange. Don't exactly know how it worked out that well.
Like I said in my other post, I think I was thrown off because I was not able to play it from the start. Which is ofcourse how I practice it. I'm not sure practicing a song from the middle would help any... lol. I suppose the best is just to be able to catch yourself when you fall.
I think alot of it was nerves aswell.
I really like Fils advice. To practice the transition as one piece. Aswell as going over it mentally aswell as physically.
In this case I didn't know until minutes before what I would be playing.
Hopefully next time I'll be better, but i'm interested in any other hints.
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SuperBee
5177 posts
Jan 06, 2018
8:51 PM
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If we are talking about practicing, which I think is at least partly in play in the OP:
One thing I would probably do, if I was practicing with my band, is just ask to play that part of the song again. We actually do that quite often, if there’s a transition which isn’t working or should work better, or if we want to tighten up the start or the end. That’s usually where the problems are, or where some organisation and practice can make a big difference. So I might say, can we just go over that part where we come out of the 3rd verse into the harp solo, or out of the guitar solo into the bridge, can we insert a drum roll here at the end of that solo and then everything drop back as the vocal starts..
kind of thing
Is that the type of thing you mean?
When you get a bunch of songs I think you can’t just play through them all anyway; it’s not very efficient. I think you start out that way because it makes sense; that’s how you get the overall picture of the song, and then after a while you start to think of ways to create some more drama, more story, and that’s through dynamics mainly but this kind of practice is about communicating and listening. I’ve heard a few times, probably done it myself, complaints that someone isn’t playing with any feeling for the song. Someone might say “the trouble with x is they don’t listen to blues so they don’t have any feeling for it”, and that could be true, or it could simply be that they are focusing on other aspects of the song and trying to play the right beats, the right time, the right notes and not listening to what is going on dramatically in terms of tension and release.
Anyway, I think once you get good enough to relax a little about some stuff and can open your ears you can start to consider how to build a song
And that is where it becomes perfectly reasonable to ask to go over something again because there’s something you’re trying to do which might make the song better
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MindTheGap
2444 posts
Jan 07, 2018
9:47 AM
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Superbee - we do that as a band, going over rough sections. That's good for the situation where everyone can basically play their bit, but it's not gelling for some reason.
My OP is a bit different - more about the individual than the band. I think Fil's idea of practising the transition as much as the thing itself may bear fruit I'll try that. Not saying I always get this - some things practised at home slot in just fine.
Refining my OP after reading the responses and some thought - I reckon the problem may be around not being specific enough. I mean practising a phrase or line at home in one context, then expecting to be able to use it at will with the band. I'm going to try practising something in a specific song, in a specific place. Then only if that works, try to deploy it elsewhere.
Re Killa's point (being thrown by not being able to play a song from the start) I remember that kind of effect when learning piano. I might know a long piece really well, but not be able to start in an arbitrary place. I think this is an aspect of 'chunking' in memory and is just par for the course.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 07, 2018 9:49 AM
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SuperBee
5180 posts
Jan 07, 2018
12:03 PM
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Ok, I think I see. Yes, that makes sense, specifically think about how to lead in.
Ive had to do that with some vocals.
With Rocket 88’ i was having trouble kicking off on the right note. I found i didn’t have any trouble on the second verse, because where I finished verse 1 left me in a good place to start.
I started ‘singing’ (off mic) during the 12 bar intro. Really all I needed was the last phrase to set me up but I started considering the vocal right from the off. Now I can do it mentally, I don’t have to actually mouth the words but that’s literally what I did to get me into it at first.
I guess this is much like a pick up
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