Dai
1 post
Oct 11, 2019
3:16 AM
|
Any one using GStrings tuner help with their bends? just got it but either my playing shite which it is. I having awful trouble with bends on the 3 hole cant hit one bend. on the 2 hole can hit all 3. Using C Harmonica.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.cohortor.gstrings&hl=en_US
Found a good site with the note charts to test the bends against.
http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/harmonica_charts.htm
These two work well together, the charts tell what note you're suppose to hit the tuner app confirms it when you play that note.
How come on holes 1 and 2 no problem bending from 3 up nada, nothing, jack sh*t. Doing the same tongue positions tee too, kee koo none of it working.
Also a bit confused as to why Glenn's C chart is different to Seydels chart on their virtual harmonica. Any one explain it.
Seydel Virtual Harmonica (just hit the dowload word):
https://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel1847.sf/secb7c48fa218/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Categories/Configurator/Config_Welcome/vHarmonica
Last Edited by Dai on Oct 11, 2019 5:49 AM
|
SuperBee
6200 posts
Oct 11, 2019
1:25 PM
|
To answer the question about the difference in Glenn Weiser’s chart and Seydel chart;
For key of C harp, Glenn’s chart is wrong about the 3 hole. If you compare to the G harp chart immediately below the C harp you’ll see the notes listed for hole 3 are the same.
(*EDIT: sorry, not quite right. Not the same as the G harp, actually he’s listed the notes for F# harp. That’s still wrong, just wrong by a semitone difference to what I originally thought I saw lol)
Notes in hole 3 of a standard tuned C harp
Blow = G
Draw = B
Draw bend 3’ = Bflat (Bb)
3” = A
3’’’ = Aflat (Ab)
Last Edited by SuperBee on Oct 11, 2019 1:40 PM
|
Dai
2 posts
Oct 11, 2019
10:13 PM
|
Thank you for clearing that up for me. Where can I find a reliable key charts for all the various harmonicas. No point in using a tuner if I don't know what note I'm suppose to hit.
|
SuperBee
6202 posts
Oct 11, 2019
11:10 PM
|
I don’t know. I just work it out.
I must have drawn so many diagrams of harmonicas over the years.
Start with C harp. Blow notes are Cegcegcegc
Draw notes dgbdfabdfa
2 hole bends from G to F# to F
3 hole bends from B to Bb to A to Ab
Tuner may show F# as Gb
Bb as A#, Ab as G#
1 and 4 hole bends from D to Db, or C# depending on which way your tuner wants to call it
6 draw bends from A to Ab
8 blow bends from E to Eb (aka D#)
9blow G to Gb (F#)
10 blow from C to B to Bb (A#)
You can do this with any key. Just apply the principles
I write out the major scale in the key of interest.
IE (don’t worry about the capitalisations below. They don’t mean anything)
C d e f g a b c
G a b c d e f# g
D e F# g a b C# d
A b C# d e F# G# a
E F# G# a b C# D# e
B C# D# e F# G# A# b
F# G# A# b C# D# E# F# (E# = F)
Db Eb f Gb Ab Bb C Db
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab
Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb
Bb C D Eb F G A Bb
F G A Bb C D E F
Once I have my major scale I draw up a diagram of a harp and fill in the notes
I know all the blow notes will be the 1st 3rd and 5th notes of the scale
For C it’s CEG, and 1-10 they go cegcegcegc
For G it is GBDGBDGBDG
I know that if I go blow draw blow draw blow draw draw blow from holes 4 to 7 I get a complete major scale, so I can fill in those notes easily
I know that 3 draw is the note before 4 blow. So if 4 blow on my C harp is C, 3 draw will be B.
Another way to look at it is that 3 draw is the same as 7 draw
2 draw is the same as 3 blow.
1 draw is same as 4 draw
8 9 and 10 draw are same as 4 5 and 6 draw
So that is all the straight notes taken care of
1 draw, 4 draw, 6 draw, 8 blow and 9 blow all bend to the note in between the blow and draw note for that hole. EDIT: see the chromatic scale at the bottom of this post. So on a C harp for instance on 1 draw, the note “between” the blow and draw is C# or Db depending how you want to call it.
2 draw has 2 bends. The first is 1 semitone below the draw note, and the second is another semi tone. So On the C harp, 2 draw G bends 1 semitone to F# then another to F
On a G, 2 draw D bends to Db then to C
3 draw has 3 bends and on a C it goes from B to Bb then to A and on to Ab
On a G that is from F# to F to E to Eb
10 blow has 2 bends. On a C it goe from C, bends to B and then to Bb
On a G it goes from G to Gb to F.
If you don’t understand why F bends to E or why E# = F I suggest you first write out the 12 tone chromatic scale as per the piano keyboard
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C
Which could also be written as
C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb C C
Last Edited by SuperBee on Oct 11, 2019 11:15 PM
|
Dai
4 posts
Oct 12, 2019
8:37 AM
|
Tuner may show F# as Gb
Bb as A#, Ab as G#
I'm glad you mentioned this I was hitting A# regular this afternoon and thought my harp must be out of tune or something.
I take it that tuners are not that accurate or am I wrong. On the subject of tuners which one is the best for use with a Harmonica?
I'm using GString Tuner only because Brendon Power used it in one of his youtube videos there may be something more suitable out there, I don't know.
No I don't understand this:
If you don’t understand why F bends to E or why E# = F I suggest you first write out the 12 tone chromatic scale as per the piano keyboard
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C
Which could also be written as
C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb C C
If the old man was still alive he could of helped me out, he read music played piano. We had a piano in the house for years and I can't play a note.
Thanks for the reply this helps a lot.
|
SuperBee
6203 posts
Oct 12, 2019
1:31 PM
|
The piano has white keys and black keys.
In western music, allthe available notes are on the piano
The white keys are C D E F G A B
The black keys are the notes in between. They are either sharp or flat depending on how you are thinking about things.
They could have been named something else I suppose but they are what they are
There are 7 white keys and 5 black keys
The black keys are C#/Db (that’s the note between C and D) D#/Eb, F#/Gb, G#/Ab, A#/Bb
There is no note between B and C, and no note between E and F
Each key is 1 semitone apart from the key adjacent to it. The pattern is white black white black white white black white black white black white
And then it starts again
The reason some keys are black and some are white is mainly that it helps the player see where they are because the black keys are in 2 groups. If you look at a keyboard you’ll see it.
There are 2 places where there is no black key between adjacent white keys. There is no black key between B and C and also E and F
This means the relationship between B and C is the same as between C and Csharp/Dflat.
The distance between each note is called a semitone
2 semitones is called a whole tone
A full keyboard has 88 keys, so that’s 8 full octaves of the 12 keys
Scales are made up (often) of 8 notes, which is why we talk about Octaves
Scales are really just a group of notes which sound good together but there are rules
A Major scale is a type of scale. It has 8 notes. You might be familiar with do re mi far so la ti do? That’s the major scale.
If you call ‘Do’ C, and build a major scale ‘keyed’ to C (or ‘in the key of C) it’s C D E F G A B C
Those are all the white keys, starting on C and ending on C
If you look at a keyboard you’ll see the spaces between the notes make a pattern
The pattern in terms of distance from one note to the next is whole tone, whole tone, semitone, whole tone, whole tone, whole tone, semitone.
That’s it. 8 notes, 7 spaces between them.
If you start on any other note and maintain that pattern you will have a major scale in a different key.
If you begin on G it will go G A B C D E F# G
The F# is the black key between F and G.
We try hard not to have 2 letter names the same in a scale. So while that F# could also be named Gb (it’s the black key between F and G), we don’t call it Gb in this case. If you did call it G flat, the scale would be G A B C D E Gb G
Then it would be difficult to write using music script.
Guitar tuners usually aren’t smart enough to know which key you’re working in so they don’t know whether to call the note sharp or flat. You just have to understand that Gb is the same note as A#
And that a tuner won’t say B# or Cb or E# or Fb
|
SuperBee
6204 posts
Oct 12, 2019
4:59 PM
|
Simpler:
Bb and A# are the same note.
It’s just a different way of naming the note in between A and B
You can say it is sharper than A or flatter than B.
This holds true for all the ‘in between’ notes. But there is nothing between B and C, nor is there any note between E and F
I tried to explain why the note is sometimes called sharp and sometimes called flat, but you probably don’t need to know all that right now.
Wikipedia articles on basic music theory are pretty good btw.
And a piano keyboard is great visual aid to help understand. Even a toy piano will do.
You don’t really need any theory to play music, it just helps when you’re trying to talk about it and need to describe something.
|
Dai
5 posts
Oct 12, 2019
11:53 PM
|
Thanks for the explanation. I don't think the old man would of had the patient in explaning as you have been. I think I will have to read this more than once to get it all to sink in.
As it happens the cat got me up early and I was watching youtube on the tv and spotted JP Allen has a bending app on his site that looks promising not tried it yet got to wait for the wife to go out or I'll get some rough tongue sounding like the cat screeching.
Bending App:
https://www.harmonica.com/bend-it-better-the-free-tool-that-helps-you-bend-harmonica-in-tune-57462.html
Last Edited by Dai on Oct 12, 2019 11:55 PM
|
bublnsqueak
128 posts
Oct 15, 2019
7:09 AM
|
UK instructor mentioned the Pano tuner. (I can't remember if he recommended it).
Its an Android freebie - iPhone too I think.
I have found it to be the best for working bends.
Not tried any specialist stuff like the HarpNinja though.
|
Dai
7 posts
Oct 15, 2019
7:50 AM
|
@bublnsqueak I'll take a look at it.
|
