florida-trader
357 posts
Sep 09, 2013
4:24 AM
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If you happen to have a MS harp that does not play well the most likely source of the problem is the comb. The second most likely source is the gapping – usually too wide. The wood combs on the Blues Harps are actually very nice if you flat sand and seal them and dress them up a bit. It also helps if you add a couple of screws. Hohner only uses two screws on a stock Blues Harp even though all MS harp reed plates have holes drilled and tapped for five screws. Adding the two extra holes across the back is easy. Drilling a hole through the tine is a bit more difficult. The tine will break as often as not. The other MS combs are mostly injection molded plastic. That does not mean that they are never flat but it does mean that you can’t improve the comb by working on it if it isn't flat. In my opinion, the Big River is the worst example of this. You can buy new Big Rivers for $22 - $24. Blues Harps cost about $10 more. In theory, they use the same reed plates and the covers may be different in design but there can’t be any difference in the cost. So the difference in the cost has to come from the comb. My guess is that the BR comb costs about 2 cents to make.
Every Big River that I have put a new comb on has been improved dramatically. And I always add the extra screws. Better seal. Better compression. If you are an overblow master or aspire to be one, the MS harps are probably not your best choice. As mentioned several times in this thread there are a lot better harps to start with if you’re going to build that monster harp. But for 95% of harp players, the MS harps can be very good instruments.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Sep 09, 2013 10:47 AM
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jbone
1348 posts
Sep 09, 2013
10:19 AM
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I used Big Rivers for a while and dozens of Sp20's before that. I had quit the Marine band when their quality was so bad in the 70's-80's.
I got pretty used to BR's and liked them pretty well but the problem for me has always been that the reeds just didn't stand up over time. On ANY Hohner harp really. You'd think they would embrace new technology and stay way ahead of the competition but obviously guys like Lee Oskar and Manji Suzuki did not seem to be a threat to Hohner's slice of the pie, so they have lagged on improving the actual quality of their product.
I don't care much for Lee Oskar tuning since it seems shrill to me but he brought the novel idea of reed plate as a component which could be swapped out.
Manji Suzuki designed a superior- in my opinion- harmonica in the Manji model. He went from the ground up here, composite comb, somewhat different brass for the reeds and plates, and permanently anchored reeds to plate with brazing. Laser alignment was crucial here to ensure hassle free performance. Covers with end vents which actually do a lot for volume.
I want a harp that's great out of the box. I don't want to tweak ANYTHING. If it's right and tight I want to play it until I kill a reed, and slap a new plate in. Suzuki Manji has provided that for me since they first came out. While they are not the only harp I play they are the core of my case.
If Hohner had done what Suzuki has, I would have remained a Hohner buyer and the MS would have been my first choice. Too bad for them!
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arzajac
1141 posts
Sep 09, 2013
10:37 AM
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jbone: There is no model or manufacturer that makes a consistent out-of-the-box harp. You want a harp that's great out-of-the-box without tweaking anything? So does everybody else...
The Manji is superior by design, but head-to-head with any Marine Band model, they require as much if not more tweaking to get them to play to their potential - your right, the materials are better designed, but the execution falls short.
Mass-production is the problem. No manufacturer can pump out hundreds or thousands of harps per day at $40 each and spend enough time on each and every one of them for them to all play consistently well.
You want a harp you don't have to tweak? Can I suggest you get a custom harp?
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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1847
1058 posts
Sep 09, 2013
10:47 AM
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lots and lots of people play stock harmonicas
adam gussow for one, pretty sure rod piazza
was using a stock harmonica last night.
not saying a custom harmonica is not a good thing
especially if you are using ALL the overbends.
but most stock harmonicas nowadays, are just fine
with the exception of the hohner ms series.
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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snakes
717 posts
Sep 09, 2013
2:25 PM
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My personal experience with the few MS harps I've bought is that they are leaky and hard to bend. I will have to say that in general I've had the worst luck with Hohner harps when it comes to being shoddy right out of the box. This could just be my perception, bad luck, or what have you. Bottom line is I only buy Hohners custom. I haven't tried Huang or Delta Frosts, but I have tried my fair share of the other makers and Suzki has won my business from the 60 plus harps I've purchased. I do have some exceptions to this rule driven by the need for minor tunings, etc. But there is my two centavos.
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snakes in Snohomish
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SuperBee
1416 posts
Sep 09, 2013
2:37 PM
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When I started playing, the time which stuck, the local stores carried only MS harps, huangs and Suzuki folkmasters. And johnsons.
Even Special 20s were MS. There wasn't any Internet shopping back then.
I settled on blues harps as the best. I learned about gapping and then I had no more unplayable harps.
I still have some of those old blues harps. I put custom combs on a couple and they are now quite acceptable.
I take the point about big rivers. Makes sense.
I do like the size and shape of the MS harps.
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clyde
314 posts
Sep 09, 2013
4:56 PM
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to quote florida-trader...
"That does not mean that they are never flat but it does mean that you can’t improve the comb by working on it if it isn't flat."
you can't?
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florida-trader
359 posts
Sep 10, 2013
7:08 AM
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Clyde:
I suppose if you take my statement literally, it is not correct. If you are willing to sand all the raised edges off a plastic comb then you could in fact make it flatter.
What I mean by that statement is simply this. If a flat comb of any material - wood, Corian, composite, aluminum, etc. is not as flat as it should be, all you have to do is flat sand it until it is truly flat. That will frequently eliminate leaks between reed plates and comb and improve the performance of the harp.
Almost all injection molded plastic combs have some sort of a lip running around the edge. The only one I can think of that does not is the white polymer Seydel comb. In the case of the Special 20, the lip goes all the way around the comb. With a Big River, the lip is on the sides and back of the comb. If either of those combs is not flat then flat sanding it would remove the lip. I could see doing that to a Big River or maybe even a Golden Melody because there is no lip at the front of the harp. A Special 20, Lee Oskar, HarpMaster or Session Steel would be a different story because flat sanding it would remove the mouthpiece at the front of the harp that many people are very fond of.
So perhaps a better way of stating this would be that imperfect (i.e. not flat and therefore leaky) injection molded plastic combs are more challenging to make flat without sacrificing some of the built in features (such as the lip running around the edge) as compared to a “flat” comb like the wood comb found on the MS Blues Harp.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Sep 10, 2013 7:10 AM
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