I'm going to speculate as to why Little Walter might've wanted to sound like a sax, vs. taking up the sax instead.
1. Some people are motivated to challenge themselves, or the rest of an instrument community by doing the unthinkable or unlikely. I can't tell you how many valves are on a saxophone, but it's more than 10 holes and the note range of a diatonic harmonica, I'll bet. At that rate, the show-off or competitor inside says "I'm going to do what others can't or don't do - I'm going to get a saxophone sound out of the harp! That'll show 'em!" and thus, the motivation is born.
The other highly possible reason to use a harp in place of a sax? The few hundred to couple thousand dollar difference in price. ;)
One of the things I enjoy about some of Charlie Musselwhite's playing is hearing some of his phrasing and style emulate what sounds to me like a guitar player at times.
Chris Michalek
Guest
Dec 03, 2008
12:47 PM
This reminds me of a gig a few years ago. Some sax playing punk came out and wanted to sit in. I've never had an issue with people sitting in unless you prove to be an idiot before hand.
"I can play anything you can play on the harp."
I say "No you can't"
"If I can play better than you can I have your spot in the band?"
"Yeah, sure.. it's my band so you'll have to ask the other guy if they want to play with you or be with ME at the next gig"
"Well I can still play anything you can. If I prove it can I have your money from this gig"
"Of course, if you can't you buy the band a round of drinks"
So I blew a chord. Gin and Tonic please.
The point is, KNOW your instrument and don't be stupid about it.
No one is right or wrong. The fact is such a discussion gives more understanding.
I too have probably expressed myself badly in pushing the sounding like a violin bit. As I said previously there are some classic violin specific pieces that most folk readily identify with like Air, Jesu Joy, Humoresque, der Traumerie and to play them in any other way is not unheard of but could be interesting or confusing? Anyway, I find a medley of such, which are really simple tunes in themselves, played smoothly like a good violinist, is both a warm up and an icebreaker (depending on audience).
Another tune which lends itself to a violin style interpretation is Summertime which can be bluesy.
Adam mentioned it above with Fox Chase, Baby Crying, Train sounds ie cannot be presented in any other way than by trying to 'copy' their sound.
I said in a previous post 'that having a violin (or a trumpet or a sax or a steam train) that fits in your pocket is pretty cool.' Of course the Harmonica is none of those it's a lot lot more. The fact that it's so portable is it's biggest attraction but this also presents problems as in the hands of a bad player (most), it has tended to give the instrument a bad name. Most of you are probably aware of the Buddy Greene classic medley on Youtube. If not have a look at it and of more importance listen carefully to what Buddy says.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rfLhnkme2mE
Last Edited by on Dec 03, 2008 1:05 PM
Why not try to make your harp sound like another instrument? Its fun! It's a good way to wake up your audience in the middle of your blues repertiore. I'd love to be able to get a sound like Sugarcane Harris.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRSV9UxgsWM
Last Edited by on Dec 03, 2008 1:22 PM
Good question, Oliver. I know that Tony Glover and his two coauthors address it in their excellent biography of LW; I read it six yeas ago when it came out but can't remember that far back.
My feeling is that he yearned to be modern, to deploy an up-to-date sound that resonated with postwar Chicago, and that jump blues, driven by the sound of the sax, was THE thing at that point. Until amplification came along, a harp player couldn't really make single lines sustain and sing; when Walter realized what he could achieve by cranking his amps up, he may have had an "Aha!" moment. There's the purely musical challenge of doing something that nobody else has done. Finally, the concept of cultural capital is relevant. Sax players, blasting jump blues and bebop, had the juice--the cultural capital--in the late 1940s. Harmonica, on the other hand, has a down home sound, quite unsophisticated. LW wanted to get dates, like every other guy. He wanted a potent, current sound. A harp player who could sound like a badass sax player definitely helped his rep, and rap.
LW's band was the first blues band to headline the Apollo Theater in Harlem, according to Glover, et. al. That's worth thinking about. Little Walter! His group swung that hard; they were new, not the same old tired blues. Working sax stuff into what he did was a key part of what got him where he went.
Preston
Guest
Dec 04, 2008
2:34 PM
Oliver, I guess for me, the motivation to sound like another instrument is pretty self-indulging. The motivation (for me anyway) lies with an audience that is not musicians themselves. People who don't play the harp don't have a clue the woodsheding it takes to get good tone, and vibrato, although they can hear it. I once read that poeple who don't play harp can easily tell the difference from good harmonica to bad harmonica, but are not very good at telling the difference from good harmonica to great harmonica. So, if I make typical harmonica sounds, acoustic or chicago style amplified, I am very liable to get a comment along the lines of "that's some good Harmonica playing. Pass me another beer before you start your next song." However, if you can immitate another instrument, and hit your audience with something they are not expecting, you are more likely to get "Wow! I didn't know that a harmonica could sound like that! How did you learn how to do that?" etc.
I guess it all boils down to I'm not satisfied with just being a good harmonica player. I want something that makes me stand out just a little bit. But that's just me.
I have no clue what LW was thinking, but maybe he thought, "If I wanna sell records, I need a new sound."
Preston
Guest
Dec 04, 2008
2:45 PM
I wrote my last post before I realized there was a second page. My last sentence sounds pretty weak compared to Adam's. Wasn't paying attention. That's another way to stand out: look like a dumb ass!
Thanks guys - that makes a lot of sense. This topic has really sparked my interest, something to think about for sure.
Something like: 'lets give the people what they want!'. I can honestly say that isn't an ideology I've ever really put much stock in, for better or worse. I guess thats why these ideas didn't occur to me.
If you want to Create and make your own voice, listen to Adam and find new sounds on harp... like sounds from other instruments.
If you want to make that oldskool sound then, copy other players.
But everyone tells me that "Musicians CREATE"........not everyone wants to be a musician though.......
I like listening to Boogie woogie piano much more than I like listening to harp.
That is my motivation for (X)(Y).
But.......if you want to sound outdated, don't let anyone give you a "beating" because of it. Just do what makes you happy.
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2008 3:50 PM
Blue Note
Guest
Dec 08, 2008
1:36 AM
Gee there is a lot of meat on this thread. I want my harp to sound like harps used on some great country music. Not there yet & suspect I might be up against some special tunings? Smooth na rough as guts but great!
In my band we have a couple of horns. The guy who plays tenor always gets the loudest cheer from the ladies.
Sax is a sexy instrument. Little Walter was a ladies man. I reckon he wanted to sound like a horn, so he got the same attention that sax players got - it certainly worked for him - hasn't worked for me :-(
Here in Jakarta tons of people get these cheap plywood guitars, don't even bother to learn to tune it, know about 0 chords, and just sit and hang on to it all day like pathetic posers, strumming indeterminately. I've had two neighbors who do this all night.
Thank God for an instrument that is versatile and portable. I dread carrying around some large instrument that I can't even play yet (so i carry around a small one i can't play yet...hehe).
The sounds I started getting with a 30w amp and guitar effects unit were truly astounding. Had the whole building shaking. With some practice a guy can really build up a wow effect. Some people here actually don't even know what a harmonica is!
As someone with a monotonous voice, harp has even taught me the notes and breath/throat control, and now I can start to carry some basic tunes aka sing. Oh happy day!
Now I wanna go home and listen to my "Buddy Guy Live with GE Smith and the SNL Band" i just scored at a sale.
Great forum and i'm really starting to appreciate "applied music theory" to learn even faster.
As a Westerner who's been in Asia for more than 10 years, you should know that those girls in the video were ok, somewhat homely. Nothing to get too excited about. All the girls here look nice at formal invitations like wedding parties (and musical performances).
Check these two out playing smoothly. I think the electric violin sounds VERY much like electric harp. And even if it didn't this video still rocks, and this chick is smokin' hot!
It's "embedding" the vid. You can find the html code beside every vid. In this vid click the arrow up and the first button. Just copy the text from "embed". ---------- http://www.youtube.com/germanharpist
Ha! That video adds a humorous note to this conversation. It's clear that what's going on here is violinists--fiddle players--who aspire to the sustain of electric guitar players. There's been a lot of guitar/violin interchange over the years. Heavy metal guitarists woodshedded with Paganini, as Robert Walser's RUNNING WITH THE DEVIL discusses. But that amped-up fiddle-thing: thank Leo Fender for that. Turn up the tube amp and get your tone to sing. It's quite possible that early rock guitar sustain folks had the violin in mind, but that seems to have flip-flopped so that violinists are now returning the favor.
I try to make my harmonica sound like a car horn-- anyone else ever tried making a quacking noise on the 1 hole draw? That really bad tone quality sound cracks me up. ---------- "Without music, life would be a mistake" -Nietzsche
I agree Aussisucker and with Adam's view of growing musically, I've play on and off for 20+ yrs at home, no jamming, bands or proper lessons...I'm not really a hard core blues fan. I just play an instument that plays the blues and from reading the above share a love with a broad range of guys who indually expect differing things from them ten holes. I copy people because they are further down the path than me but still enjoy getting stuff wrong.
One thing for certain though You tube and MBH has taken be from a Mel Bay reading beginner ability to a reasonable player in no time so thanks guys
What I did was a different than what German Harpist described. Every Utube video has a URL and Embeded at the bottom of the info window. You can see it even if you have the "Less Info" display. I just highlighted it, right clicked and selected copy, then just right clicked on the forumn and selected paste. Viola! You tube right on the page.
