Interesting point of view Chris. Like harmonicanick, I thought it was well done. Just the right amount of tension and release and it seemed to flow quite well. I'm curious to know how you would have approached it?
I would have played it smoothly... In time, with good intonation, used the appropriate vibrato and played notes that were within the chords.
Her playing didn't match the music. Keep in mind, I've actually played with Peter, my last guitarist toured with PG for 13 years, Peter one of the most supportive and open minded musicians I've met but I'm telling you, he'd cringe as much as I did.
Christelle used the wrong position. Something like 12th would have been much smoother and cleaner. Peter is a very fluid singer and Christelle's playing was harsh and choppy. Almost like a woodpecker at times. She should have echoed his lyrical line but she didn't even come close. It didn't come off as musical to my ears. It sounds like a smattering of unformed ideas that she thought my sound good. There were some OK parts but for the most part is simply wasn't good.
I can also tell she's been listening to me and where she places my signature licks and turns aren't placed correctly within the structure of the tune.
The hardest part in critiquing a person is whether or not to give them a handicap for being an amature. I think she did a much better job than say Fredrick Yonnet who would have butchered the song. In my mind Fred and Christelle are in the same class of harmonica player. They are harmonica players with pretty good technique who do not have it together musically. They are more harmonica player than musician and certainly wouldn't be classified as artists. How do I qualify that? Put them on a stage and see if they can play. Yonnet would ruin a song with his wanking and other worldly antics... christelle would fold like a sheet. She can't handle pressure, ambiguity and doesn't have the skills to improvise with a real band. In the end, neither of them add to a song.
I don't intend to come off as a hater because I certainly don't hate or envy either one. I'm just trying to be as objective as I can within the scope of what a "real" or "serious" would be. When I lived in MN I was one of the executive producers for the largest jazz festival in the state. Evaluating talent was a necessary skill.
Buddha,i know i'm a nobody and like it this way but you're tiring me........
You realize that in almost all your post you always find a way to put yourself under a spotlight by dragging down the one you criticize.
You're one of the best player in the world and this forum is a huge opportunity to meet people with your knowlege but communication is not your strong side. how sad is that....
And yes i know you don't give a shit,that is the way you are ,take it or leave it, bla bla bla.......
cm16600, you're right I don't give a shit. I'm here to help people like you, I am not here to satisfy my ego. What you need to understand is I offer a "real world" perspective on musicians and harmonica players. My goal is to help players like yourself be better players, my tools are the harps I build, the tool kits I build, the lessons I give and the perspective I behold.
How am I dragging anybody down by pointing out the truth. If a person has weak tone and can't bend notes, am I dragging them down by point it out? NO it's the truth.
What I'd like to know is what is your point? and why do you have issues with truth?
Everyone is entitled to their views but such harsh criticism IMO is very unfair & totally unwarranted.
Such criticism, one on one, eg. teacher to student is acceptable but not for spraying around.
Personally I think Christelle is a very good Harp player & if I could play as good as Christelle I would be very happy.
And if Buddha is really so good why isn't he more famous? Sure he might technically be on top of the Harp, and be known in Harp circles, but he has a real serious problem in communicating both in writing and IMHO musically.
I think, if others can recall, Buddha posted a Silent Night video in the lead up to last Christmas. OK the video was good, but only for a bunch of harp players, but IMO it was real crap in the way he treated such a simple beautiful tune. IMO Silent Night can be played only one way ie simply and beautifully & most likely in the first position. But is this for 'purists' just too easy?
The difference with Christelle is she is way ahead in knowing how to communicate her music and she always delivers what most people like to hear. It sounds and is good.
Similar bagging of talent was noted, not from Buddha, but certainly on this forum of a German Harp player who won a major talent quest for his playing of Ave Maria. Technically simple stuff but bankable & people love it!
Christelle used to be a regular contributor to this forum but I guess no one would now blame her if she never comes back. Personally I would like to see more of her views as they would IMO be very helpful.
On the other hand, in spite of being a cocksure and abrasively arrogant SOB (love ya Chris), his response did cause me to re-listen to the clip. The second time, with an ear pre-calibrated to the gist of his opinion. The first time, I listened and thought it was a very nice clip. Christelle makes very pleasing sounds to my ears. However, on the second run, with Buddhees opinion in my mind, I heard it in a completely different light. Was it any less pleasing to me? No. But, his comments made me think.
Chris (Buddha) is a harp player with talent that I will never possess. I am not a musician, nor will I ever be. I am a guy who dearly loves the harp. I place Chris in a category where I place professionals. Athletes, writers etc. I am a damn good harp player. I am also a damn good skier. I would say that I ski better thsan anyone I know ---- who is not a professional. I may be at the top 5 percent, but I'm never going to have the chops of a pro. When a pro talks, I listen.
Chris offered a take on the clip. Gussow has enabled a free-society of ideas and opinions. I, for one, welcome opinions that go beyond "me too".
So, I am not defending Chris. He's a big boy and can take care of himself (or, loose the hounds if need be). But, I wanted to emphasize that, even if it came off as a bit harsh to some, it was read by me and considered.
Back to your regularly scheduled programs.
By the way, as a misogynist, I love "hot chick" musicians.
My only criticism of your criticism is to please strike the self-deprecating tone in your opening sentence.
I think there's a slight sycophant fan-boy aspect to this forum, where we are all thrilled to rub shoulders with a pro like Chris, and are inclined to bite our tongues. Good for you.
Maybe one day Buddha will become a bodhisattva for a moment and realize that how you say something can be as important as what you say. The "I call it as I see it" schtick does wear thin. If Chris wants to use this forum and build a following for his music and talk up his custom harps, maybe he'll figure this out. The contrast between Adam and Chris is striking, isn't it? Live and learn.
People like me (beginners, ammatures, people who don't want to make it their LIFE AMBITION, but enjoy it tremendously) would die happy if they could play like Christelle. She's great, sounds good, can be real bluesy or real classy when she wants to.
And a lot (a lot) of guys here will do what I'm doing. praise her, because it all sounds good to us. I think what Buddha brings to the table is what he said... just that... "a (real world) perspective" I would never (at this point) have dissected her playing the way he did. I'm in the same league as Aussiesucker in just thinking "It sounds and is good." however, Buddha's criticism was was very helpful when I went back to listen, close my eyes, put my headphones on -- I could see his criticism.
with that said, are there any other active female harpists these days?
lets get something straight. I don't come here to pimp my products or to build a following. I was here long before I even offered my harps building skills to the public. I am here to help you guys with whatever you need help with. I have always enjoyed helping others and that's my only motive for being here.
Secondly, why am I not more famous? It was never a quest. I have a family and until the economy started to blow up I had a high paying 'gravy train' job that was too good to leave. I enjoy playing music for the sake of playing music and playing with really great local musician with occasion stints with "famous people" was enough.
I know I don't communicate well. I've told you all before, my filter just doesn't work. It's not a schtick. I don't make excuses I just am who I am and allow ALL of you to be who you are with one exception, I try to help you become better YOUs.
My criticism of Christelle is valid. From your perspective as a harmonica player your opinions are valid too. I didn't discredit anybody's opinion. My perspective is usually one of a producer and artist. I don't think like a harmonica player, I don't call myself a harmonica player, I AM a musician and artist.
Do I think she's a bad player? NO. Do I think she's a good HARMONICA player? YES. Do I think she's a good musician? Not yet. She has a very good ear but her technique isn't at the same level as her thinking.
I've said it before, I think 2nd position is lousy position for everything but blues and country. It was plainly the wrong position for a tune like that however few of you can see my point because so few of you play in positions other than the "big three"
I don't pretend to be some harmonica god. I am who I am and I'm rooted in reality enough to know that if some body says something about my playing then I will take the time to investigate it. I am a student.
Any of the people on this board who've dealt with me personally will tell you, that I'm just a regular guy who simply has faith, trust and respect for the people he meets.
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2009 1:27 PM
I found it very useful to re-listen to the piece armed with Chris' listening points. An additional snippet of info would be that all of Christelle's vid are first take, no practice, no rehearsal. She's be the first to admit she's no pro, but we get to eavesdrop on the journey. That's what makes it special.
Let me be clear, I haven't even had a chance to listen to Christelle's video yet. Per my post, I wasn't reacting to the content of your criticism, just how you say it. So fine, you say you don't have a filter--that just strikes me like an easy out. I have no reason to doubt your sincerity and your altruism, and I hate to be PC, but since that's what you are all about your mission will be a little more successful if you moderate your adjectives a little bit. That's all I've got to say on the subject.
O.K, O.K., I've have never mentioned this to anyone here on the forumn because I didn't want to sound like a "sycophant fan-boy". (Holliston - I'm not jabbing you, I actually like the way you worded that). Chris took time out of his weekend a month or so ago to take a phone call from little ole me. I wasn't buying a harp, and I wasn't setting up skype lessons, I just wanted to talk to a guy of his caliber of playing about some of my personal goals, and to get his take on how to achieve them.
As a teacher who gives lessons he had every right to say, "I'll take your phone call right after you pay for some lessons." And I really wouldn'tve had a problem with that. It's part of his lively hood. But he took my call none the less and we visited a little bit. I'm not going to set here and wave a flag saying "Hey everybody look at me, I just talked to Buddah". I just want to let you know I think I get him a little bit more because I've actually "talked" to him rather than read things he's posted.
Does Chris "sound" like a dick sometimes when he makes a post? Yes.
Look, I work in the construction industry. There are people in this world that are just flat out blunt, and don't care if they hurt your feelings. My own boss has chewed my ass so much we had to set up an appointment with the dentist to put new points on his teeth because he'd ground them flat.
But here's the thing about guys like my boss and Chris that you have to understand. It's not personal. I said I was in the construction industry (electrician) but I am actually a project manager, so I deal with People more than I do electricity these days. There are two types of blunt-ness. Some people are intentionaly trying to put you down, and some people are just blunt because the have "no filter". Believe me you have to be around them a little bit to seperate the two. You can't make the distinction right away.
We've all read Chris's posts and it's time to realize that this is just the way he his. Chris is a guy who says what he thinks, and you CAN'T take it personal. Yes sometimes he sounds harsh, but he isn't BEING harsh. Does that make sense? If you don't think it is correct to talk like he does, you certainly don't have to, but you can't fault him when he does it.
That is all I am going to post on this topic. I know I can't change everybody's opinion, and I am fine with that. I just felt like weighing in.
"I guess most of us aren't real musicians, we're just "harmonica players".... "
That doesn't apply to everyone.
I get that people listen to another's harmonica playing only and then judge based on that. Wearing that hat, christelle comes off as a very sensitive and emotive player and generally sounds good. But if you listen to the whole song with "big ears" does it sound like there is a harmonica player in the band or a harmonica player out in the audience "gussing" along with the band?
I think people who sit in the audience and just play along are incredibly insensitive.
I don't mean this to come out the wrong way but...
I've met a few of world's elite musicians and one of the things they have in common is the lack of a filter. BTW- don't read this as me saying I think I'm an elite musician. Anyway, I have found that the better I get at music the worse my "filter" for people becomes. You can hear my lack of filter in my music. That's where the ferocity and spontaneity comes from. I hear something, think something and I react immediately without thought. Now if you can hear that in my music, take your ear to other instruments and have a listen.
Michael Brecker is a good example. I met him and got to play with him in 2002. Nice guy, generous with his knowledge and very supportive on stage... BUT he was as blunt as you can get. Listen to his playing though.... FIERCE, Unrelenting but yet he can turn on a dime.
Howard Levy is another guy who many think is an asshole but he just lacks a filter. I once had a very close relationship with him and many of my friends questioned how I could talk to him everyday. I think Howard is great... very generous and very supportive.
I've played with Buddy Guy twice and he was another cat that came off being very blunt but underneath it all you just knew he was a decent guy. Jr Wells, however, was NOT a decent fellow. He'd try to screw you the second he thought you weren't paying attention.
Bobby McFerrin is another guy I shared the stage with a few times. I was part of a circle song thing he ran in Minneaolis when I lived there. Super sweet guy but VERY BLUNT.
I've been on stage with Jack McDuff when he was upset. He started yelling and screaming and then was throwing low ball glasses at them as they ran off stage.
Do you think a guy like Sting is blunt? I never met him but there are a couple of harmonica playing friends I have that toured with him. They've all been fired. Several of them during a rehearsal. I have heard that he is very difficult.
There are just certain personalities that are a certain way. The the meyer-briggs test and see what you are... I'm an INFJ and it's not coincidence that many famous jazz musicians are the same thing.
Bluntness, is part of making a quick decision and in music, if you're improvising, you have to be quick on your feet.
I've mentioned before that I started a jazz festival in MN. That festival continues to have some of the biggest talent available. Working with multiple and very sensitive personalities was just a way of being for that thing. And then there was coordinating the whole thing with 50 vendors, media people, 100+ staff and a 100,000 people, you have no choice but to make quick decisions and be blunt about it.
As Preston said, right or wrong, it's just the way I am. I don't mean any offense or harm. I just say what I think and it's something that has worked for me despite the fact a few people and harmonica players take it personally.
I have a wide wide range of experiences and really am here simply to help you all be better at what you do.
"I think about 90% of what Buddha says is wrong. "
Please point out the places where she echoed the melody line or supported Peter's vocals in anyway? I couldn't find a single instance.
Close your eyes and pretend Christelle is playing a sax. Would that be acceptable music you'd expect from a saxaphone player? NO. It doesn't mean Christelle is bad, it just means she doesn't know what she's doing. She wasn't listening. She was just playing what she felt. That's works for blues but not with that kind of music.
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2009 3:59 PM
I just gotta weigh in on one this hot--I love it when people start stepping on toes--guess that's cuz I'm and as*hole.
I like Chris and his views a lot.
I also like Christelle a lot.
I think the best thing said on this whole thread is what Buddha said about "It didn't add to the music" (not those exact words). The clip was a wonderful performance. I don't think anything Christelle or anybody else could do with a harp would add to that--it just wasn't needed.
Any song, arranged properly, could work with harp--but this performance of a song wasn't arranged that way.
I sure wish I had the skill to add that level of unneeded music to a performance though!
Just another opinion. . .
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2009 4:01 PM
Buddha, I think your initial criticism is very valid. Just two little things I didn't understand:
What do you mean by Yonnets "wanking and other worldly antics". Do you mean his wild upper body movements? If yes, I don't see why this should in any way destroy the song as it has nothing to do with the music he's playing. In the contrary, I count that as positive as it helps the audience understand the musician (you know... stage presence). I think especially important with the harp where people mostly have no clue what is going on because they don't see the instrument.
And what do mean with "I think people who sit in the audience and just play along are incredibly insensitive." - this I just didn't get.
I've seen Yonnet play some truly great music but lately all I see is his desire for flash.... he's seems to have turned into one of those guys who who blows his whole wad in a single and every solo. I've found a lot of his recent music to be most noice and seemingly with little musical intent. He has the skills to be so much better but sticks with his crutch which is his charisma and good looks. He's got the music and talent in him. Less show and more music would make him "better" in my book.
re insensitive players in the audience. You enjoy it when you're playing music and some harmonica player out in the audience is playing all over your song? To me that's the highest form of insensitivity for a musician to display. I always enjoyed having people sit in with my band and I would have anybody come up regardless of talent level. BUT if you're going to "gus" my band I'm more likely to ask the bouncer to show him the door than I am to invite him on my stage.
People actually do that? lol. Ok, I just have never seen that happen. I knew some harmonica players would step on toes when sitting in. But playing while sitting in ... the audience. Awesome! Thats funny as hell.
Insensitive? It is the ultimate form of disrespect!
Buddha : I question the term 'real world perspective'?
What is the real world really?
You say you bring a real world perspective to harmonica players and musicians? From whose viewpoint yours or the real world?
There are very few harmonica players or musicians that make it big time in the real world. In fact the very best technically does not equate to measurable success in the real world. Although success is a very personal thing and IMO as long as we are heading to where we want, or are at where we want to be in our playing, then it's all ok. But this is our own personal world.
Being blunt is not a problem now that its been thrown open. Do I think you are a great Harp player? Yes, technically one of the very best. Do I like your playing ? Not that much,at least not from what I have seen of your work on youtube. But I'm the first to admit that there is lots of music that I dislike. So it's probably me ie please don't take offence.
I think real world perspective is exactly that ie its how the real world measures an artist. Ask Joe Public about famous harmonica players & they will most likely mention Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen etc. Similarly ask an average Joe about who they like as a violin player and a lot would say Andre Rieu. Are they correct? They certainly are not wrong. Bob Dylan has probably introduced more people to the harmonica than anyone and Hohner is quick to acknowledge this. Great musicians? Yes, but compared to whom? They all have a fabulous product package that sells & the 'real world' has rewarded them.
To put it even more bluntly I would prefer to be able to play Harmonica like Christelle than like you. Although if I were to acquire your technical skills I would still play similar to Christelle ie music that IMHO most people in the 'real world' enjoy & relate to.
Keep contributing as I really enjoy your posts which in the main are constructive.
I don't doubt for a moment your integrity or sincerity in expressing your opinion here; I know you're doing no more than being objective.
I'm a former music college boy - big deal. My point is that a third of our degree was focused on sitting around 'talking' about music so that we could evaluate it in the objective way that you would appear to be doing here.
Some people would get quite hot under the collar about what is nothing more - when you think about it - than a disturbance of the normal ambient vibrations in the air around you. So is a nuclear bomb, but they do more harm.
Where I would disagree with you here is not so much that that lady's beautiful playing would have served the song better in a different position. Perhaps you're right. Rather, it's the notion that there might be a more 'acceptable' or received way of fitting in with the tonality of that - or any other - song.
I listened to her playing before reading what's here, and it gave me goose bumps. I mean, it moved me! Surely that is more important than any tacit or inveterate agreement about style or tonality.
Let's say that you're right: it would have fitted in better in 12th position. My understanding of the kudzurunner philosophy of 'Modern Blues Harmonica' is that you break out of the mould and do something new.
If you accept that and take it to its logical conclusion then playing something in the 'wrong' position, be it 2nd, is breaking that mould.
I know that you're a fine musician who's ears are more tuned to what's going on with a harp than many of us. But, I think that may also be something that taints your judgment in a more 'subjective', not objective way.
I think that Frank Zappa put it better than I ever could in the quotation I use after ever post.
Kind thoughts to you,
Mick ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
Aussiesucker, who you like and how you want to play is your business. If I wanted to sound like you or christelle or adam or anybody else I would but I have chosen to develop my own unique sound. I'm glad you don't like it because it means I'm doing something right.
I've already explained "real world" but I'll try to be more succinct for you. By real word I mean a person who has personally hired top notch musicians. Not only have I hired such groups as Yellow Jacket, Chick Corea, Return to Forever, Bela Fleck, Bobby McFerrin, Michael Brecker etc.. I have also hired the absolute best in harmonica players Kim Wilson, Howard Levy, Toot Thieleman, Hendrik Meurkens, Carlos delJunco. I'm not even going to start naming people I've shared the stage with.
By real world, I have personally interacted with in business and music, seen live perfromances and evaluated these people for future performances or recommendations.
On top of that side of things, I am also a musician who can stake claim to an original voice on the music scene and on one of the most difficult instruments to master. Adjunct to that, I also build some of the best harmonicas a person can put in their mouth.
The reality is, I know music, have seen the world's elite perform and posses an understanding of our instrument like few others do.
You talk about joe six pack liking so and so... and you think they are the ones who dictate what is good or bad. I'm telling you now, choice is an illusion created by people who are not unlike myself. People are told what to like and what to buy. And the sheep follow.
Need proof? Electricity. Nobody was asking for it before it was presented to them. Now few of us could live with out it. Are you aware there is better and more efficient technology available and it existed before electricity took over the world?
If I had the right set of power tools, I could make the entire world think Grifford Dewayne was the best harmonica players on the planet and most of you would agree because most people hate to have their own true opion so just blindly accept what others say.
When I make comparisons and dish out criticism I do so with the highest respect for those that actually deserve it. I would classify Christelle's style as melodic but largely non-improvisational ala Charlie McCoy and Buddy Greene. Is she as good as either one of them? NO. Not even close. Is she a good improviser? NO she can't hang on a stage with most bands. Was her playing sensitive? Yes but did it mesh with, add to and support the song? BIG NO. Are there musicians out there who can play along with a youtube and make it sound like they were part of the band? BIG YES.
So tell me, if I judge her as a musician how can I say she is good? if I judge her as a harmonica player how does that help her become a better musician?
Most of you here are probably too young to know, but Buddha, you remind me of John Houseman in "The Paper Chase". The trouble I have with it is, most of us here aren't Harvard law students--hell we're still in high school trying to get a date with that cute cheerleader (or quarterback).
Tuckster, my wife was just telling me the same thing. Big fish in a small pond. The big fish tries to act like the small fish but he's just too big and on top of that he's a saltwater fish.
Still, don't go away. I'm cr*p at comminicating on here, and I've had to try to learn a different way of speaking, writing, typing, whatever it is.
It's much harder than in 'real' life. At least to me. ---------- 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
I love this site. I always learn something new or brings back something I Love. Don't know about the rest of ya, but did you listen to her doing Chris Rea, The Road To Hell. I love that song . I don't know if she was great or not. I Thought she did a good job here and there.My point it got me thinkin of new stuff for that song. I play it on the guitar and the keyboards. It goes Am-Dm-F-E-Am. The words are wonderful and the melody cool. I Love That Song. I learn something everytime I come to this site. Keep on postin I'll keep on learnin. Thanks To All. K.C.
Buddha : "So tell me ,if I judge her as a musician how can I say she is good? If I judge her as a harmonica player how does that help her become a better musician?"
Nothing gives you or anyone the right to cast judgement on a player by spraying it all over a forum. Perhaps If on the forum she had asked for help it may have been ok but & as said previously such criticism if given in private to a student would be acceptable. Otherwise keep it to yourself. You either like it or you don't.
There is a lot lot more to being accepted than just being technically good and putting your resume out there for everyone to see. As for building harps I see from comments made by others that yours are pretty good.
I don't doubt your skills and achievments ie that I never questioned but this does not give you the right on a forum to be so cruelly critical of any artist that others enjoy.
I know and respect a lot of the work of the harp players you mention.I don't love everything they play. However, and I may have a 'tin ear' but I have frankly never heard of any of the groups you have hired. Sorry they are just names that mean absolutely nothing to me. Perhaps it is because I listen mainly to country music stations or because of my more mature age bracket
Yes, if I dont like it (your music that I have seen on youtube)you probably are doing it right.
Would love to know what your better and more efficient alternative to electricity is? If it is solar then I'm already an advocate , but it's still electricity! If it's something else then keep it under wraps as it will no doubt make you very famous.
@Aussiesucker:I assume from your handle,you're not from the States.Those are some very famous players Chris hired. You'd be well served to seek them out on the "Net and listen to them if you want to expand your musical horizons. IMHO
Tuckster : I have heard of the harp players mentioned and have listened to them all. It's the groups that I have never heard of. I googled them up and still am not the wiser. Probably my age group and strong interest in country music has not exposed me to them. Also they are probably not Aussie groups.
I really do not want to greatly expand my musical horizons just my ability to play what really interests me. In particular I am not fussed on most groups & whilst many have great line ups I prefer to listen to players accoustically.
Some of you probably know I've had my disagreements with Chris in the past. I got offended by him too. Big time.
But eventually I realized he was right for most of the part. I don't know about you guys but I've learned to appreciate blunt unfiltered advice. No sugar coating, no bullshit attached, no scratch my back I scratch yours... Just STRAIGHT TO THE POINT.
How many of you actually play with musicians? You know what's the worst thing? Someone giving you bullshit critique because they're trying to be nice. Someone DENYING you of the truth and possibly encouraging skewed self-perspective.
How many of you have had false encouragement, felt good about it, and then one day realize you're not all that good or possibly even SUCK? Well, I've been there. I feel betrayed and angry at the people who did that to me. Letting my GLARINGLY OBVIOUS mistakes slide and telling me it's all good. What the hell man, that's SABOTAGE.
I get offended these days (but refuse to say anything) when someone gives me fluffy false critique these days. I find that it can be very condescending when you genuinely want/need to improve but nobody would say anything helpful.
I'd rather hear something like "dude you gotta work on your minor scale, you're hitting the wrong notes" than "hey that's not bad!".
You know what happened in the end after my little argument with Chris? I found out the hard way he was right. I felt like such a dumb ass for even arguing. I ended up changing 80% of my rig not because of him but because I found out the hard way. I wasted a lot of money in the process. If only someone like Chris told me what NOT to use in the first place. Ah well. Lesson learnt.
Chris does care to a certain point. Otherwise he wouldn't be here. One thing that I can count on him for is the TRUTH. I don't think he would feed me the wrong information (deliberately) or sabotage me ever. And if you think he doesn't care about us harp players maybe it's true. Maybe he cares about his reputation enough that he won't give bullshit advice. So what's my point? His inability to filter allows me to trust what he says word for word.
I found it even more interesting that he mentioned he's an INFJ.
I'm an ENFP and usually am most compatible with INFJ's. My wife, is an INFJ.
Aside from researching a lot about ENFP's like myself I have dedicated a lot of time over the past few years to understand the INFJ (being married to one can drive you to that).
I think it adds up. INFJ's naturally do lack a filter even though their intentions are actually good. Every single one I've met is like this. When you meet them in person they are actually really nice and sometimes even soft people... but at the same time there is an incredibly intellectually driven cynic in most of them. So they're not wimps or anything like that.
When my wife gives me critique she doesn't hold back. At first I got all defensive much like how everyone has that knee-jerk reaction to Chris but I realised it's all for saving time and cutting through the formalities and bullshit.
INFJ's generally get misunderstood on their intentions. Often they mean good but can come off as offensive or insensetive. This is usually because they are not aware of how their actions can be read differently from their intentions. To them, their intentions are as clear as day. And if you can't figure it out, most of them don't really give a shit. I know my wife doesn't. lol. Though I really did dig deep on understanding this "don't give a shit" behaviour. It's actually what the MBTI system calls "naivity". Every different type has their strenghs and weaknesses. INFJ's really do find it very hard to express their intentions when they are acting upon it.
Of course this kind of help isn't for anyone. If you're just playing for fun that's cool. You don't need it. In fact it IS bad for you in some ways since you're just doing this on your spare time.
If you're ambitious like me, you need to embrace this kind help. It's the best you'll ever get.
Now, regardless of what I've said I do believe that being an INFJ (as much as it is being an ENFP) is no excuse to be mean to people. Nobodys perfect. For example ENFP's have a problem with "rightous anger", they toot their horn real loud when they believe they are right, in fact I'm being the obnoxious rightous ENFP right now by explaining my perspective in this long message...
So I do agree that Chris could have been nicer about how he said things. But I don't believe it's necessary. If you don't like how he says it, just ignore it, don't even dignify it with a response.
Hey this IS a forum. You CAN choose to ignore which is just like dealing with people in real life.
---------- My Videos
Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2009 8:44 PM
Buddha sayeth, "I'm telling you now, choice is an illusion created by people who are not unlike myself. People are told what to like and what to buy. And the sheep follow."
Ok, I said I wouldn't say anything more, but I just watched Christelle's video, and basically agree with Buddha and Old Wailer's conclusion. Seemed more like karaoke than an attempt at some sort of new fusion of media and musical styles. I really liked her playing, I just would have liked it more in a different context. In other words, Baaaaah, baaah, baaaah!!! OMG!! Horrors! It's mind control, I tell you! Except really, I've expressed my own self-formulated opinion, no really, I mean it. If that's allowed.
On the other hand, I watched the 2 videos Buddha posted under Sensitive and Beautiful Playing. There are people, not unlike myself (though not myself, because then who would I be?) who might say, with respect to video #1,that although the performers are musically talented people (that would be people unlike myself*), it was pretty much elevator music. There's a certain bar in Miami Beach with a website that plays something eerily similar in the background while it launches a slide show of the lounge and restaurant areas. And, with respect to video #2, Bocelli, as a matter of general principle wholly unrelated to the actual video at hand, skirts way too close to cliche, sort of Michael Bolton with vibratto and slightly tamer hair. There, I've asserted my independence from the thought control people, unless someone programmed this entire out of control response from little ole me, a mild sycophantic fan-boy, self-deprecating lamb.
Also, while I'm ranting, it's pretty clear that Christelle may be rising from the ranks of the great unwashed, but is not at the top of the charts. But whoever thought she was? She's a very talented amateur who films videos (harmonica) in her bedroom. I love her, I think she's really talented and I can learn some stuff from her, just like I can learn stuff from Buddha. She's good enough to get a few endorsement thrown her way. A little crass, but hey this is America...or France as the case may be, oh whatever. I think Buddha gave her too much credit by heaping criticism that should only be delivered to professional musicians who actually tour, record, perform. Which I think, is part of the reason there was so much backlash against the criticism directed at her.
*Bonus points on this forum to those who express the highest level of self deprecation. I am not only not a salty salt water fish, I am not a fish. Baaa baaa baaaa!!!
"Nothing gives you or anyone the right to cast judgement on a player by spraying it all over a forum."
Just as a person has a "right" to say how much they love something, another person has the same "right" to say how much they don't.
Christelle chose to upload her video to one of the largest public forums in the world - YouTube. She is asking for opinions by allowing her channel to receive comments. What you guys don't know if I said the same thing on her channel and she deleted it. It seems she ONLY wants positive affirmation. That's not the behavior of one who wants to learn or be a true public figure, it is instead the behavior of a person with low self esteem driven by Narcissism.
If you go through her channel, I have left more "nice" comment than "harsh" comments. The "harsh" ones are always deleted.
Buddha :Here you go again. She does not deserve to be trashed by anyone saying she has 'low self esteem driven by narcism.'
Saying what you like and saying what you don't like is fine. Too much very hurtful stuff has been gratuitously thrown into the mix. This is something a true professional in any field of endeavour would/should never do.
I also, if I were Christelle, would remove any unrestrained hurtful type negative comment. It adds nothing for those who enjoy her videos.
And let me tell you I am the worlds foremost authority in knowing what I think.
Before I raise up the white flag I would like to hear all about your better efficient alternative to electricity?
"choice is an illusion created by people who are not unlike myself. People are told what to like and what to buy. And the sheep follow."
How Does that make sense? and how does it apply to everyone?
"Need proof? Electricity. Nobody was asking for it before it was presented to them. Now few of us could live with out it. Are you aware there is better and more efficient technology available and it existed before electricity took over the world?"
Confucious, I think you just like to spit Bullshit all the time...Half the posts of yours that i have read have some cheesy "Wise saying" that i think.... is intended to make you seem more "inciteful"? (and the sheep follow), no one is following here. Maybe you need a new staff or robe? I see NO grounding in that statement....or "maybe" just don't get the meaning.
I don't know what you have to argue for all the time for. You are a great player, just give us your advice, if we don't take it than our it's loss.
But DAMN, There's tons of people on this forum, there WILL be some who don't agree with you, Just like you did'nt agree with the first post.
"Low self-esteem driven by narcicism"?
how about- "Low self-esteem driven by krispy-kreme"?
and what is an "INFJ"!!???!!
---------- ---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
I have an idea, but I don't know if its good: Times like these it is maybe (!) better not communicating on a forum but over voip. And as we are all infront of our computers anyway (wasting our time writing tons of text) why don't we just meet up over skype? ---------- germanharpist, harpfriends on Youtube
Good idea.Let's do it, we will continue our battle then. LOl.... this forum does get carried away from time, but it's good. I wouldn't have it any other way. ---------- ---Go Bears!!! (Richard Dent for Hall of Fame)---
Me thinks Adam will soon be slapping the padlock on this thread, so I'm glad to be getting this in under the wire.
First, let me say I'm a semi-Christelle fan. She does a video where she plays to Clapton's cover of the Robert Johnson song Walkin' Blues, that I think is kick ass. She's got some other stuff I don't care for. She's a far better player than I am, and may ever be. Love her tone, and she's got great technique (IMHO and I do mean humble).
That said, watched the video in question and I get what Buddha was saying, and he said it far more knowledgeably than I could. My comment would have run along the lines of: "I just didn't feel like it fit. It seemed like she was stepping on him a lot."
I understand that many take Buddha's bluntness as him being abrasive. And for the most part I have been in his corner.
I must say though that I had a "wow" moment to his comment: "choice is an illusion created by people who are not unlike myself. People are told what to like and what to buy. And the sheep will follow."
For me, that's all that needs to be said about how he regards most of the people on this board. Not only are we his inferiors as it relates to his musical knowledge and playing ability, but he will shape our musical tastes for us.
I can't wait for his next post to find out what I should like next.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Opinons. Everyone has one. I'll come down on the side of those who are closer to Buddha's corner.
Playing music is a craft, but it's also an art. The first part implies that we consciously create effects with the way we play and what we play. The better we are, the more effects we have at our disposal. The "art" part means that there is no defensible objective way to be sure that one choice of effect is superior to another. Superior musicians are superior because they can create more effects than inferior musicians and they know which ones suit either their audience or the artistic vision that moves them, and they achieve this. The great ones do it in unique ways as well.
Personally, I like Christelle's sound. As it happens, I think Peter Gabriel has a pretty good (read: f***ing brilliant) appreciation of the sounds he is painting with and there was no room in that composition for any harmonica played by ANYONE.
Harp players (especially, but not exclusively) need to learn that the silence between the notes is at least as important as the notes.
All this being said, what interests me as an aspiring musician in this thread is to listen to what Buddha is saying. You don't have to agree, but you'll be a better player if you can understand where it's coming from.
I'm having a similar problem to the one highlighted by Buddha in this thread, as it happens, which is to decide which position I want to play a particular song in. 2nd gives me rhythmic accents and swing, but the timbre of the bends is a bit harsh for the context I'm playing the tune in. 1st might be a better choice. I think considerations of questions like this are what begin to turn a harmonica player into a musician who plays harmonica.
One last reflection on the craft and art of music:
Paul Anka is an accomplished singer, but Sid Vicious' version of "My Way" is far superior artistically.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2009 8:37 AM
Ignoring most of the argument and sharing my own opinion:
I don't know much about the difference between 2nd and 12th position but I feel that her playing didn't sound right with the piece. It did sound harsh and I felt her playing was taking more away from the music then adding to it. Reminded me of the movie Amadeus, every time they told him there were too many notes. I'd like to hear Buddha do an accompaniment with this piece so I could hear how an actual musician would do it and have something to compare it with and learn the difference from.
I have my own opinions of Christelle's playing and the average post from Buddha but I don't see how they help anyone. I just try to read or listen to what I can and take from it anything I think is worthwhile and dump the rest. When I first read something I don't like I force myself to rewrite it in my head in my own words like I would on final drafts on an English Comp paper or something. Then I take the human element out of it and hopefully am left with facts that I can either choose to use or dump.
Last note: I wouldn't have watched this video had it not been for this thread, thanks for giving me a reason to watch it. To be honest, except for one or two videos I find Christelle's work boring and can hear what it sounds like in my head just by reading the title of the video.
No padlocks, yet. But whew. So this is what happens when I go away for a few days?
Actually, this is an interesting and needed thread.
I use a sliding scale when I offer criticism. It's assembled, in part, from some basic points of similarity that came up as I read my way through many books of spiritual literature after my heart "incident" back in 2000.
1) Honesty is good, but honesty per se isn't a transcendent value. Sometimes honesty can be cruel. Brutal honesty, as we call it, isn't always the best policy--although it may, on occasion, be called for. But it's not the only way, or the only good way; often it's not a good way. Honesty is ofen more useful, more skillfully deployed, when alloyed with kindness. (All of the world's spiritual traditions have, as one of their core values, the concept of loving-kindness. Buddhism--from whence CM takes his handle--certainly does.)
2) When somebody asks you what you think, they need to be prepared to listen to the answer.
3) Although loving-kindness is as close as we come to a universal spiritual value, people who insist on being nice all the time probably aren't being authentic. "Nice" is a pose. Sometimes it means people are afraid of losing control of all the dark stuff boiling inside. Sometimes it means people are entirely out of touch with that dark, nasty stuff. Real people have edges. Marianne Williamson, a New Age priestess whom I happen to admire, made this point during a weekend intensive I attended at the Omega Institute. Real people have edges. They're OK.
At this point, having just read through this entire thread, it seems to me that enough critique of various kinds have been addressed to Christelle's playing that we might want to think about giving her a break. Did she start this thread with a post asking what we all thought of her? I didn't think so. At a certain point, honest critique becomes scapegoating. I think we're rapidly approaching that point.
