Miles Dewar
405 posts
Sep 18, 2009
7:22 AM
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This is why I think the last challenge was not as good
-SUMMERTIME-
I'm sure not many people would want a contest on Swing Low Sweet Chariot.
Didn't want to say but personally I ALWAYS hated Summertime and thought people made way too big a deal out of it.
I loved OldWailer's track. Though difficult... it had the ability to free us up and play what we heard in our minds.
NOT what tabs we found on the internet.
If this is a CONTEST I think we should be challenged on our own creativity. Not how well we can play the theme from Mash.
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I LOVE the prize thing. Though if entry fees apply it WILL limit the amount of people that we can have.
I think we could elect a certain amount of people once a month or every two months to donate $5 - $10.
If we elect 10 people that's a $50 - $100 prize.
Who has jobs and low bills?
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I elect myself.
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tookatooka
507 posts
Sep 18, 2009
8:50 AM
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Hello Miles, where were you when we were debating what to have as a theme for the last contest? We kicked around some ideas for quite a while and Summertime came through in the end due possibly to a lack of better ideas at that time. There was every opportunity to be creative with that song by handling it in our own particlar way but I think we all struggled because in no way was it as easy as we thought it would be. There's nothing wrong with finding tabs to use, just so long as they are not followed slavishly - introduce our own take on the song.
The next one will be a challenge rather than a contest. Not sure how it's going to work out yet. So many people want so many different things, I think we'll have to take a middle ground and try and satisfy the majority but creativity will be important.
The prize thing has been discussed and would be too difficult to administer at this time so that has been shelved. There's no reason why it couldn't be considered another time so if you have a simple way of doing it let us know.
I'm fully aware not everyone will be completely satisfied with the challenge but the more that take part, the more impetus it will generate and the more people who will get involved in its running.
Hopefully we can count in your participation on the next challenge and if you have any more ideas or suggestions how we can make things even better let us know but don't forget resources are limited.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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nacoran
183 posts
Sep 18, 2009
9:09 AM
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I was on an antibiotic that dried out my mouth the month leading up. It was like sandpapering my lips, or I would have at least given it a try. I did try to play along with the entries after the fact (after I'd finished the antibiotics).
Maybe we could pick a style and have people pick their favorite song in that style to play. I wish I had html skills. A thumbs-up-thumbs-down counter could make voting more streamlined. Voting, with a cash price especially, will be really tough during this experiment with auto-registration. You'd almost have to go to a judge system.
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Miles Dewar
408 posts
Sep 18, 2009
9:46 AM
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The last contest was RUSHED. Horribly.
It came up too fast and started too fast.
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tookatooka
508 posts
Sep 18, 2009
10:01 AM
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I think it was so that we could at least be doing something constructive otherwise we would have done nothing and it would have died. The deadline was put back a couple of times due to peoples other commitments.
When do you think the next one should start?
Would next week be too soon?
How long should it be left open for?
Would end November be too long? Or not long enough?
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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mickil
528 posts
Sep 18, 2009
11:55 AM
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"4. Name of the challenge to be re-considered so that non-harpfriend members e.g. global YouTubers looking for harp related clips will see our clips in their searched listings. This will create more interest and you never know where the talent scouts are lurking."
This is not necessary. YouTube indexes and searches for videos according to the keyword tags you enter when uploading. The Upload page does explain this clearly.
"5. It’s not a contest. It’s a challenge for the individual to hone their skills and then share what they’ve learnt with the harp community and show them off to get feedback. Most of all it should be fun, fun, fun.
Once again ideas and suggestions welcomed please. Don't forget we're not necessarily looking for a winner, but someone who has done well and deserves recognition."
I know this isn't life or death, but I'm dead against all that stuff. I don't see the point of a competition that's not really a competition. How did this creep into the general psyche? Categories - or declarations of skill level - should help to even things out and avoid what Isaacullah referred to as the 'Christelle effect'.
As for receiving feedback, I myself spent an extremely long time writing my feedback when I voted, both for those I chose and some of those I didn't. We can have winners and losers and offer a bit of constructive criticism; the two aren't mutually exclusive.
"The other contest should be more free-form, and closer in time. We can call it "chugging" but perhaps it would be more conducive to call it something like "solo harp jam"? That would pretty much cover whatever anyone wanted to submit, and wouldn't explicitly limit people to playing original material. You got a really great train rhythm you do? Submit it! You made up your own twelve-bar? Submit it! Got a really good version of "Got my Mojo Working"? Submit it! Think you can do justice to Adam's "Front Porch Blues?" Submit it!"
Isaacullah, I think that's a brilliant idea. I know of no other music competition wherein the contestants are obliged to play the same piece. Admitedly, the competitions I have in mind are for professionals, but the principle is the same.
As for the number of years playing bit, do I put 'about 15' or do I try to subtract the years I'd given up through despair? I prefer trying to use Adam's assessment thing.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Sep 18, 2009 12:16 PM
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tookatooka
509 posts
Sep 18, 2009
12:57 PM
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OK Mickil.
Item 4 has been dealt with. isaacullah also replied similarly. Being a new youtubee I wasn't really clear about that but it is nothing to be concerned with.
Item 5. I understand what your position is here and I'm torn. A competition really needs some sort of winable prize. As we have none (apart from kudos and bragging rights) that puts us at a bit of a disadvantage. If there was a huge prize then the participants would probably try that much harder because more was at stake. Having said that personally, I will treat it more like a competition because that will be the only way I'll get the impetus to practice and do my level best. (I need a target to aim for). I'm sure others will too. If I win (and I will) it was a good competition. If I don't (and I won't) well it was only a challenge. Others may think of it differently and have their own personal views.
Regarding the solo harp Jam idea. I have taken that on board and intend for that to be the format at the moment unless of course any better suggestions come forward in the next few days.
I've also thought about the skill level/no of years playing thing too and would suggest putting both Adams assessment plus years playing into the youtube description box on our videos for clarity.
Thanks for your suggestions/comments so far. You know only too well what it's like this end trying to appease everyone. The end result will never be perfect but each time we do this, improvements will be made. Maybe someday we'll get someone come along with a brain bigger than mine who'll know how to run these things properly.
There needs to be a point where we drive the stake into the ground and run with what we've got otherwise we'll just go round in circles.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
Last Edited by on Sep 18, 2009 12:59 PM
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mickil
530 posts
Sep 18, 2009
1:03 PM
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Thanks for your efforts, tooka. With HPC2, it took me hours trawling through and trying to balance everyone's concerns; it ain't easy!
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
YouTube SlimHarpMick
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Preston
505 posts
Sep 18, 2009
1:56 PM
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You are never going to balance everyone's concerns. It's why middle and upper management are percieved as assholes by the workers. It's not because they are truly assholes, it's becuase they have to make choices good for the whole group, not the individual, and have learned to not worry about who they may piss off by makeing those critical choices.
Divide everybody up by skill level. Do it based off of Gussow's guide. He's been playing and teaching long enough to stand behind the levels he's established, and we should too. There are going to be players who clearly entered in the wrong category and then there are going to be people bitching about how the think the winner was probably was is in the wrong category, but that's really as close to good as you can get with a suject as subjective as music. It is what it is.
Do it free form, so everyone can play what they want. But here's how you level the playing field: everybody puts in the description what they are trying to accomplish: I.E. "I'm going to play a basic 12 bar blues." or "I'm going to chug my ass off with no musical structure" or "I'm going to play an original chord progression that goes G,G,C..." etc, etc, etc.
Let everybody play what they want, in the style they want, at the temp they want, and you will see people shine.
But that's your only shot to do your own thing. From there on out, one or two guys (we'll call them the committee) get together, pick a song (or idea) and set the rules. If you're interested, you compete. If it's not your thing, you woodshed 'till the next one. That's the only way to keep it fun. After that contest, you rotate members of the committee, and go on to the next competition. No bitching, no trying to please everybody.
Hope that didn't come off to blunt, 'cause I appreciate the sentiment of makeing it fun for everybody, but as diverse as this crowd is it just ain't gonna happen every time.
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isaacullah
339 posts
Sep 18, 2009
1:57 PM
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"As for the number of years playing bit, do I put 'about 15' or do I try to subtract the years I'd given up through despair? I prefer trying to use Adam's assessment thing"
LOL! That a good POINT! :) We could say something like (and these are TRUE values for me):
First time I picked up a harp: 6 years ago.
First time I SERIOUSLY picked up a harp: 2 years ago!
Self-assessment: I'm a solid Advanced Intermediate
Now let's bring it ON!!!!
~Isaac
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Sep 18, 2009 1:57 PM
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tookatooka
510 posts
Sep 18, 2009
2:19 PM
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Thanks Guys. I'm ready to go too. I'm preparing a forum invite to kick things off and will add rules and other bits in a few days.
Just one important thing though. How long should we let it run or when should I set the deadline for entries? Don't want it too short and then again don't want it too long.
Would entry deadline by end November be too long? Your thoughts please. Especially Mickil and issacullah as you've been there before.
Thanks Preston. Not blunt at all. Perfectly underdstandable in the cyberworld.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
Last Edited by on Sep 18, 2009 2:20 PM
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bluzlvr
243 posts
Sep 18, 2009
2:27 PM
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I would suggest that we not let the previous (contests, challenges?) die.
The first one was a kinda front porchy slow blues in E while the second one was kind of a jazzy minor thing, two different ways to look at the harmonica.
If you've already submitted something and think you've improved on it, submit another one for everybody's consideration. It would be interesting to see peoples progress.
If you're like me, go ahead and submit your first one.
(Hopefully, ONE of these days...)
After all, isn't it all about improving your chops?
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Blackbird
113 posts
Sep 18, 2009
2:35 PM
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I like what Preston is saying in his most recent post.
If anything, these MBH contests/challenges are too young in the making, and it may take a few more to work all the bugs out via experimentation we do now. Let's run with it and let the winners have bragging rights and each contest will teach us what went right or wrong.
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RyanMortos
311 posts
Sep 18, 2009
3:09 PM
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If often considered revisiting the first HPC & taking old wailer's backing & making that my first youtube video. I still may.
Sounds like HPC 3 is turning into Everybody make a video to demonstrate a little of where you're at & submit something/anything! Sounds cool, people can still vote which they liked best & construtively criticize.
At the same time I think something should be the same in either that or future HPCs. Same backing track, same impersonation (like, everybody do a song like Little Walter or everybody do a harpfill on an Elmore James song), etc. I think its great to hear how everyone would take to a similar task.
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~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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tookatooka
511 posts
Sep 18, 2009
3:19 PM
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RyanMortos said,
"Sounds like HPC 3 is turning into Everybody make a video to demonstrate a little of where you're at & submit something/anything!"
Good point, The Blues is so wide ranging bordering into Jazz and rock etc it would hamper some people who didn't really care much for the theme of the challenge. I think that's what we found with HPC2. I hope this will be addressed in HPC3. It's important that we play what we feel best at. Otherwise it's not fun.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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Miles Dewar
409 posts
Sep 18, 2009
9:41 PM
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We need to have some sort of structure.
I agree... hold off on prizes until a more mature HPC develops.
* Most importantly we need to start threads stating what the purpose is (HPC3- Track voting, HPC3- Deadline Voting, etc.).
Where on Earth did CM16600 go? He was my co-partner in harpfriends.
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tookatooka
512 posts
Sep 19, 2009
1:33 AM
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Hello Miles
"We need to have some sort of structure."
Tha basic structure had already been established in the previous HPC's. There will be some small differences from the previous HPC's as it evolves.
As I said in a previous post "There needs to be a point where we drive the stake into the ground and run with what we've got, otherwise we'll just go round in circles".
I think we'd rather be playing and practicing than going into every little detail. It will all resolve itself in the end.
Theme, Rules, Judging etc will be made avaialable in plenty of time.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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mickil
531 posts
Sep 19, 2009
2:05 AM
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tooka,
I think that November might be too soon. Last time the deadline was forwarded twice, the second time after one person had already submitted something.
In the future, perhaps we should have them bi-annually, or tri-annually at the very most. Otherwise, I think they'll go stale, they'll lose any novelty.
About the prize. I always thought from the start of HPC1 that the prize was just winning, just walking around with a little grin for a while, and getting a few nice words written. That's all I'd want out of it, anyway.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
YouTube SlimHarpMick
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tookatooka
513 posts
Sep 19, 2009
2:30 AM
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Hi Mickil,
Do you think end of year then? End of November would be 10 weeks away. End of December would be 15.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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mickil
532 posts
Sep 19, 2009
4:18 AM
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Personally, tooka, I think that mid to late January would be better - xmas and all that. I myself don't bother with it, not even a card, but family peeps generally do. Don't forget all those office piss-ups from mid December onwards, crimbo shopping and that carry on.
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'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchen; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty' - Frank Zappa
YouTube SlimHarpMick
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Miles Dewar
411 posts
Sep 19, 2009
10:21 AM
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I was thinking something like Tri-annually. That goes into the structure.
We need to set a date when we are starting a thread choosing the Groove to play to, rules involved (no amps and mics, maximum entries to 1, etc.) date contest will start, date contest will end, etc.
If we don't imply one now, any forum member can come along and try to start a HPC4-HPC5-HPC6 etc.....and there WILL be people down for it..... then all it takes is 8 people to say yeah I agree lets do it.
There may be 20 people who haven't checked the forum in a few days and the 8 people have already set rules, dates, grooves etc. Then the others don't get a chance to have a say and may be not as interested as if they would have had a say.
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isaacullah
345 posts
Sep 20, 2009
12:06 PM
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Tri-annually sounds pretty good to me too. Let's say HPC3 will be up at the end of January. Then the next one (HPC4) four months after that, then HPC5 four months after HPC4, etc. Four months should be plenty of time to work something up... We can all take turns being the "ringleader" by sticking the names of those willing to do so on a list, and then cycling through the names. I'd certainly do it again in the future!
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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mr_so&so
205 posts
Sep 21, 2009
8:11 AM
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Just my two cents here. I generally agree with the direction that this next challenge is going. I agree with those who think twice or three times a year is sufficiently frequent. If they are too close together we can lose our own paths on where we want our playing to go. Thanks, Tooka, for taking the lead on the next one.
My thoughts on HPC2 are that it was challenging doing a well-known, non-blues song. I had to learn it from scratch and figure out how I wanted to play it. That was hard. Given the short time frame and limited time I had to work on it, I had to make some compromises in order to submit something. All that was good learning material. I'm sure I'll learn as much or more on the next one.
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