toddlgreene
161 posts
Nov 19, 2009
8:29 AM
|
I've played harp for 20 years now, different styles and a few different positions, although 2nd is my usual first choice. My ear and mouth are synchronized to know when and where all the 'usual' notes NOT found by overblowing are, and I'm comfortable with my playing and that I have my own style. Since forming the Harmonica Club here in the New Orleans area a year ago and having discussions with some of our players, and especially since I began frequenting this forum, the topic of overblows has me fascinated. I have a desire to learn and incorporate them into my playing, but not an overwhelming one-YET. Part of my brain sees it as a novelty or 'the latest thing', and then I see/hear them in use by some practitioners such us Jason Ricci, Dr. Adam, 'Buddha', Howard Levy et al., and I think I want do incorporate OBs into my playing.
So, my question is twofold: How many of you newer players have learned these via Dr. Gussow or other instruction and actually incorporate OBs into your playing?
And, for the experienced players: How many of you have taken the task of learning OBs after playing for a long period of time without them, and now incorporate them into your playing style? Have you 'set up' harps especially for OBs when you anticipate using them, and have your standard set-up harps for when you don't? I'd like to think that 'an old dog CAN learn new tricks'!
----------
GO SAINTS!
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2009 8:32 AM
|
ZackPomerleau
462 posts
Nov 19, 2009
8:37 AM
|
I use them quite a bit.
|
aka
8 posts
Nov 19, 2009
8:38 AM
|
I'm woodshedding right now OB6. Watermelon Man is my first goal, St. Louis Blues is next and St. Thomas not far behind. I've played for years, but never did much with the advanced techniques. I'm ok with bending. The Godfather Theme is my new tune. I can hit the OB6 now 75% of the time on a stock SP20. As soon as I'm 100%, I plan to modify the SP20 and perhaps try a stock MB.
GO SPORTSTEAMS!
|
HarpNinja
27 posts
Nov 19, 2009
8:38 AM
|
I learned to OB my first year of playing and use them all the time. I took lessons from Clint Hoover in Minneapolis, MN. All my harps are setup to OB. I am pretty sure there are OBs on almost every song on my MySpace.
In my world, an OB is no different than a bend, which is not different than a draw or blow note.
Overdraws are harder for me and I use them less frequently.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
Preston
547 posts
Nov 19, 2009
8:43 AM
|
I'm with HarpNinja. I learned overblows at the same time I was learning bends, and it was shortly after I picked the harp up. I don't see them as a novelty, rather as just another bend.
I do use the 7 overdraw frequently when playing cross harp. 8 overdraw is a repeated note of 9 draw, so I really don't know why anybody would use it on a regular basis, and 9 and 10 overdraw...well I don't spend much time on that end of the harp so I haven't really gotten into using them.
I can't imagine playing without overblows. They are just part of my playing and seem very natural.
|
isaacullah
456 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:07 AM
|
I just learned to OB in the past 6 months or so, and I'm still learning about what to do with them. My main task so far has been:
1) Just to get them! (I can get 4, 5, & 6 on a C harp or higher, 5 + 6 on A - B, and jut 6 on harps lower than A)
2) Learn to control them with no squealing or without blowing to damn hard (~80% of the way there)
3) Learn to hit them straight up, rather than bending into them from the normal blow note (I can do this ~ 90% of the time on the 6, but am still ~50% on the others)
4) Figure out how to use them musically (I'm getting there!)
At first, I was just intimidated by the concept. There's so much hype about it, that it seemed like something only crazy harp geniuses could ever do. Once I got it for the first time, I realized that the process was JUST LIKE LEARNING TO BEND WAS! The block was not a physical or talent thing, it was a psychological one. I look back at when I was learning my bends, and it's been the same process at the same rate for me with the overblows. Bends to me are just subconscious now. I know the note I need, and I get it. I hardly think about it, much less "okay, 1, 2, 3 ready... here it comes... GO!--TWO DRAW BENT ALL THE WAY!" like I used to say in my head, and which I still kinda do sometimes for my OB's now. It's a psychological and a muscle memory thing. I wish I had never heard any of the "mystique" about OB's and rather was presented them when learning bending together as "this is something normal and essential you have to learn if you really wanna play this instrument". If I'd have learned the two techniques at the same time, I'd be hitting OB's subconsciously now too.
Anyway, just this morning I discovered how cool the upper octave 5th position blues scale is. It requires the 6 OB and total shift in breathing pattern. The low octave 5th pos blues scale is this: +2 -2 -3bb -3 b -3 -4 +5, while the upper octave one goes +5 +6 -6 +6ob -7 -8 +8. The strange breathing pattern is the out-in-out all on the six. But it really sounds cool once you get it, and actually is pretty natural. Now you HAVE to hit that 6ob straight up with no natural "grace note" first, but it's not that hard once you realize that OB is just like bending.
----------
------------------
The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2009 9:11 AM
|
Grillslinger
63 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:11 AM
|
Very useful. Especially for 2nd. You get a flat third in the middle octave.
|
jonsparrow
1333 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:11 AM
|
i use overblows. but i didnt learn them the way every one teaches it. they say its like a draw bend the blow out. which does work, but the way i learned it was with controlling back pressure and tongue position.
|
Andrew
750 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:12 AM
|
5 and 6 yes; 4 less so.
----------
Kinda hot in these rhinos!
|
JimmyFamous
11 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:28 AM
|
Quote from HarpNinja;
"I learned to OB my first year of playing and use them all the time. I took lessons from Clint Hoover in Minneapolis, MN. All my harps are setup to OB."
HarpNinja,
I live in the "Twin Cities" also, and just last week got the name Clint Hoover from our new drummer. I am thinking about lessons.
A couple of ?'s for you.
Did you learn how to overblow from Clint?
And,
Do you set up your own harps for OB, and if you do where did you learn to set up?
----------
Jimmy Famous
|
Buddha
1173 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:29 AM
|
Jimmy,
Clint is a good player and teacher. He can teach you anything you need to know.
I will be up in MN in a couple of weeks so if you want a lesson, I can help you out too.
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
JimmyFamous
12 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:33 AM
|
Thanks Buddha, that sounds great.
----------
Jimmy Famous
|
tookatooka
785 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:42 AM
|
OB 1 Just about get it but certainly not dependable
OB 2 -diito but a bit easier-
OB 3 -ditto but a bit easier-
OB 4 Piece of cake.
OB 5 Can't get it
OB 6 Get it occasionally but not very often.
Personally, when I hear overblows I can detect them easily and don't find they sound very pleasant. They sound dull and forced and I find they can detract from the tune.
I don't use them in my playing because I don't always know where they will fit in.
However, I still want to learn them, in case I do find they are useful, and I can slip them in without ruining the tune.
----------
|
mickil
631 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:44 AM
|
As Grillslinger said, 'Very useful. Especially for 2nd. You get a flat third in the middle octave.'
That's all I use it for at the moment. That 6OB is invaluable for joining the top and middle octaves. And, the more I use it, the easier it gets, even on harps I couldn't previously do it on.
To answer your first question, I learnt it from the brilliant description on Mike Quill's mega-brilliant website, which is linked to from the forum's FAQs page.
Like a lot of stuff you learn, once you 'get it' you can't ever imagine what seemed so hard about it. Give it a go, dude.
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick
|
Buddha
1174 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:59 AM
|
"I don't use them in my playing because I don't always know where they will fit in."
this is exactly why you need to practice scales and arpeggios.
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
RyanMortos
479 posts
Nov 19, 2009
10:15 AM
|
I need to learn to be able to do them. Im trying. It seems to me having a correctly set up harp is half the battle so Im working on harmonicas & technique.
Some great tips have helped me get the ones I infrequently get on 6ob. A mix of reversing the 6d bend, Preston's 'Que' method, trying to relax and play the overblow note quietly, and Buddha's imaging blowing up a straw method. Using them together gets the overblow note on my better set up harps. Im practing, I cant say I can overblow but I can say I can occassionally hit an overblow when Im trying on the right harps.
Why do I need overblows? I cant play complete scales without them. Sure, there are some complete scales that dont need overblows but then I develop a list of what I cant play. I dont want a list of things I cant play that's longer then the list of things I can play.
----------
~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
|
congaron
271 posts
Nov 19, 2009
11:01 AM
|
I use 6 quite a bit, 4 and 5 occasionally. Six is the only one I am good enough to hold as long as I want to and vibrato. It sounds like any other note, but my wife wonders where it is when we play together...lol. I try to explain it, but she doesn't really care enough to figure it out. I have a tendency to use them more in medium and slow minor key pieces. Again, not really good enough to do much fast stuff with them.
|
blogward
7 posts
Nov 19, 2009
11:09 AM
|
Setting up (in particular) a Golden Melody for OBs is not difficult, and OB 6 in cross harp (2nd) is the first OB to learn. It sounds completely authentic and fills in a big gap in your blues vocabulary. It's also very bendable. OB 1 is worth persevering with because once you have it, your OB technique is probably all there. For the rest, OBs are good as passing notes so that you can play minor arpeggios or fully utilise the alternative scale positions. They open up Latin and other 'exotic' phrasing, which means more FUN!
|
toddlgreene
162 posts
Nov 19, 2009
11:34 AM
|
I appreciate all the input thusfar-now it's time for a segue...I play primarily Lee Oskars, and don't know how possible it is to set them up for OB playing-anyone done that? I'm sure I'll get some to say 'toss 'em and buy _____harp, but I've got quite a few and from a cost perspective, I don't want to have to replace them all unless it's a necessity(unless you who say that wish to be financial backers;-D). I'm very adept at hitting any normal blow/draw bend on command, and understand the theory and mechanics of hitting the OBs. I don't have a harp that has been specifically been set up for OB-yet. When attempting the 6 OB, I get that awful, squeaky 'sick duck' sound-and not just on my LO's. CAN IT BE DONE on LO's, or should I not waste my time modifying them for OB?
----------
GO SAINTS!
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2009 11:36 AM
|
Bluzdude46
284 posts
Nov 19, 2009
12:09 PM
|
LO are the worst to try and modify. I have read more then one place that it has to do with the Metallurgy of the reed. Once you alter the reed at all it begins to break down. They are great beginner harps and very bend friendly and I like the bright tone of them. But they are not the best for OB (which I suck at)Out of the box is basically what you get
|
mickil
632 posts
Nov 19, 2009
12:13 PM
|
Someone might correct me here, but I think you can get them on any harp. A lot of the stuff about best harps for OBing on is just marketing and hype, at least that's my understanding. Though, it's easier to learn on a higher harp, say C or D.
Once you've got the technique, you'll get OBs on any old piece of junk - I think! Though, it's probably easier to learn them on a well set up instrument.
Someone please correct me if I'm talking twaddle.
----------
YouTube SlimHarpMick
|
phogi
118 posts
Nov 19, 2009
12:25 PM
|
I'm a newbie, I've been playing a little over a year and a half. I use overblows almost every time I play. I only overdraw once in a while, since I'm not yet very good at them. I can get all the overblows, but not all the overdraws. Just one, in fact. I can also bend them all, over blows and overdraws. Control of the overdaw is currently difficult.
To me, not learning them is like being a violin player who only learns to play in 1st and 3rd position: can thy make great music? sure. Are they missing out on some expressive qualities of their instrument? Yep.
Also, as a piano player, I can't stand the notion of not being able to play a certain note. It'd be like someone ripping keys off my instrument.
|
toddlgreene
164 posts
Nov 19, 2009
12:39 PM
|
Exactly, Phogi. Ever since I've played, these 'missing' notes without the use and knowledge of OBs have just been an understood thing, either making me move to another position or tuning -but there's no need for them to be out of reach, which will require some mental reprogramming when I acheive them.
Damn, I wish such a forum(or at least the internet)were around when I started playing-I think it's awesome that so many newer players are playing at such levels, and I applaud you all.
----------
GO SAINTS!
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2009 12:49 PM
|
HarpNinja
28 posts
Nov 19, 2009
1:24 PM
|
Jimmy-
Clint is an awesome, awesome teacher...he taught me to ob and adjust reeds so I could ob. Clint taught me obs as a way to teach me how to use theory. Buddha showed me the basics of setting up a harp, though. This was many years before he started doing what he does now.
Unless it is a harp from Buddha, I set up all my own harps. Rupert's DVD is fantastic for learning to do so. I emboss, tune, arc, and gap the reeds. I can replace reeds and anything beyond that suck.
I am to the point now where I can get just about any harp to ob on 4, 5, 6 out of the box. That doesn't mean it is fun.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
JimmyFamous
13 posts
Nov 19, 2009
2:13 PM
|
HarpNinja,
Thanks for the info. As soon as I can stop spending my money on new harps, I will take some lessons with Clint.
If I can make it to a NiteRail show I'll say hello.
----------
Jimmy Famous
jimmyfamous.com
|
HarpNinja
29 posts
Nov 19, 2009
4:10 PM
|
I think we're in the Cities four times in Dec. Make sure you say hi and we can talk shop!!!
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
tolga7t
6 posts
Nov 19, 2009
5:04 PM
|
I tried to get the 6 overblow for weeks/months before I finally managed to make it sound good (I always heard it was the easiest one to pop so I always aimed for the 6 hole)
After being comfortable with 6 overblow, 4 & 5 came along right after pretty easily.
I am proud to say that I got all my OB's on out-of-the box harps, no adjustment of reeds whatsoever.
So nowadays I use 4,5,6 OB's pretty regularly when I am practicing, but when I jam with people I don't have the nuts to explore much and I end up sticking with the more common stuff.
By the way, here's what has helped me to get my OB's (especially my first 6 OB) :
1 http://www.levyland.com/blowsanddraws.php
2 http://www.angelfire.com/tx/myquill/Overblows.html
3 Tremendous amount of patience!
|
Jim Rumbaugh
106 posts
Nov 19, 2009
6:58 PM
|
OK, now I'm feeling left out
I've been playing 8 years. No overblows. I'm happy that I can hit a bent note on pitch.
Gee, I'm just now getting down the blues scale.
|
Aussiesucker
440 posts
Nov 19, 2009
9:36 PM
|
Jim, you are not on your own.
|
apskarp
54 posts
Nov 19, 2009
10:15 PM
|
Hi,
I can use OB 4,5 and 6 with the harps that are setup for those pretty easily. With stock harps I usually can do OB6. I really use in melodies only the OB6 which I'm most familiar with - and it's easy to use in 2nd position as it's the blue 3rd. OB4&5 I use sometimes just to get off the "blues track" and get something more interesting and jazzier. I mean my mind finds new passages as they aren't so familiar notes on harmonica.
Now I'm learning OD7. I can hit it from time to time, but I'm just on the process of learning it. I tend to make up a melody to help the process. One melody that sounds quite nice and jazzy with OD7 is as follows: -7 OD7 -7 -6 -5 +5 -4 +5 (-4 -3 -3bb)
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2009 10:16 PM
|
clarksdale
17 posts
Nov 19, 2009
11:14 PM
|
Howdy,
I use OB 4,5,& 6 and Overdraw 7. That's it. I mainly
use them as passing notes.
It was VERY hard for me to decide if I should incorporate OverBlows permanently into my playing because I write most of the music I perform. So therefore, if I compose a bunch of songs containing OverBlows in them and put out a new CD, there's no turning back.
My decision was made to commit actually just VERY recently when i was doing a song writing session in my studio. I use FRUITY LOOPS, which is a software to create beats and just about anything other sound synth.
Usually, i start out making up a beat, then add in a BASS line groove to match it, then hook up my LINE 6 POD with a Shure 57 and play Harmonica to the Track as i write the song.
I began to find out that I was ALWAYS writing basslines that needed that 4 or 5 Overblow in them, so then I finally decided to be a commited OverBlow user.
Sorry, this is getting long, i'll wrap it up.
The MOST IMPORTANT thing, is that if you are kinda not so well off $$$$$ like i am, and you have to set-up your own Harps, you REALLY have to take care and make sure that you don't mess up the NORMAL playability of the Harp when setting up the Reeds for the Overblows!!!
Good luck and above all, have fun!
P.S. I'm currently working on a website devoted to OverBlowing called www.OverBlowHarmonica.com
If YOU have any INFO and/or LINKs you'd like to appear on my site, just contact me: shop AT overblowharmonica.com
----------
$Daddy Rich$
"The Blues is Ok!"
|
Preston
549 posts
Nov 20, 2009
5:32 AM
|
@Jonsparrow (and anybody else interested in a Friday morning rambling):
In my never ending quest for better tone, I have been experimenting with my overblows. I don't typically play tongue blocked, but I can if I want to, so I've been trying to OB tongueblocked, just as an exercise to see what it sounds like. Like you, I started overblowing by altering my tongue position, but this I believe leads to weak tone and throws the intonation off. I decided if I was gonna overblow tongue blocked, I first needed to learn how to overblow from the back of my throat, much like a draw bend.
Although I've only been doing if for a week or so, I have to tell you that it has made an improvement on the quality of my 4, and 5 overblow, and has improved my ability to hit the 1 overblow. (6 is still giving me trouble from the back of the throat, but I'll get there.) I guess what I'm saying is that it's worth a try to re-learn it.
Hmmmm...thinking back on something Buddha said awhile back. Maybe it's because I've been playing for almost 3 years now that my throat muscles are finally developed enough to overblow like that. It may not be as easy/possible to overblow correctly if your not good at bending first.
|
Tuckster
264 posts
Nov 20, 2009
8:59 AM
|
Enough already! What hath Howard Levy wrought? I'm not saying OB's aren't a viable playing method,but I think alot of you are missing the forest for the trees. This or that guy says they get OB"s and I think to myself,what am I doing wrong? Then they post a video and what I hear is poor tone and they don't even know when to hit the 4 bent instead of straight on(one of the biggest mistakes I hear from newbies.) But they can hit that freakin' OB. OB's are a very tiny(but important) part of playing. Most of the time you're not OBing.Learn the "heavy lifting" stuff first.IMHO.Sorry if I come across as a dick,but I had to get that off my chest. I mean no harm.
|
Buddha
1178 posts
Nov 20, 2009
9:10 AM
|
OBs, Bends and straight notes are all equally important. If you are not using any of the above then you are musically selling yourself short.
Why anyone advocates not using every available note on their chosen instrument is beyond me.
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
congaron
283 posts
Nov 20, 2009
9:17 AM
|
There is nothing but time. Time to practice over blows and all the rest of it. I don't see any reason not to. If a valve on my trumpet sticks, i don't just keep playing it without the valve. I clean it and oil it. If a string on my guitar goes out of tune, i don't stop using it, although i may bend it up for awhile until the song is over. I tune it and use it. I personally think everybody should try a little over blowing every day, until they figure it out. Why not? "Oh, that's where that note is" makes the harmonica seem like a real instrument to me. I used to think it was a toy, like so many people do.
|
Tuckster
265 posts
Nov 20, 2009
10:16 AM
|
Im not saying you shouldn't learn OB's. Notes are notes-I'll take all I can get. I just think some people put undue emphasis on them at the expense of all the rest of those notes.
|
congaron
290 posts
Nov 20, 2009
10:22 AM
|
I understand. There is so much more to this instrument that i ever imagined. I am pretty amazed at what it can do. It's a real treat to get all the perspectives and try them out in the "shed" while my guitars, trumpet, mandolins, bass, and percussion instruments (way too many of those to list)enjoy the show. I guess the harps don't get to do that since they get closed into their case afterwards...lol.
|
toddlgreene
168 posts
Nov 20, 2009
10:30 AM
|
I think my main obstacle(other than getting a properly set-up harp) is a psychological one-I'm otherwise a confident and proficient player, and this is uncharted territory. I certainly see their worth and use, especially if the tone of the OB notes I get(when I get them) is not any less in quality than the others. That's another thing-I have no desire to play ANY note if it's a lackluster sound. Like everything, though, I'm sure the quality of the note will improve after I learn to pop them in at will. Babysteps, babysteps. I appreciate all the input.
----------
~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
|
Jim Rumbaugh
107 posts
Nov 20, 2009
10:41 AM
|
How about this.......
It's not howmany notes you have, it what you do with those notes.....
....nawww, my wife doesn't believe that either.....
|
blogward
10 posts
Nov 20, 2009
4:05 PM
|
The main thing with OBs is that they free up those funky alternative positions and allow you to play minor scales, arpeggios and folky pentatonic licks without buying any other harps. So they save money! But once you can put minor scales together on a diatonic, your humble tenhole becomes so much more expressive than a stock chromatic. Then you have the problem of the virtuoso tuba player - nobody gives a rat's ass:)
|
Andrew
752 posts
Nov 21, 2009
2:23 AM
|
"Then you have the problem of the virtuoso tuba player - nobody gives a rat's ass"
Very trenchant and very true!
----------
Kinda hot in these rhinos!
|
kudzurunner
799 posts
Nov 21, 2009
4:17 AM
|
I think Buddha and Tuckster are both right. Buddha is right when he says, "OBs, Bends and straight notes are all equally important," but I'd add to that list "tone, vibrato, groove, syncopation, tongue-blocking, tongueing techniques associated with lip pursing, harmonic knowledge, and a keen appreciation for silence as an element of melodic phrasing." When you put all those elements of skillful harmonica playing together, OBing does indeed come to seem like what Tuckster characterizes it as: a small but important element of superior blues harmonica playing.
One reason overblowing has recently--in the past twenty years, but especially in the past five years--become a notably important element in blues playing is that its presence in one's playing represents a decisive realignment in the direction of MODERN blues harmonica rather than traditional blues harmonica. And that modern/traditional split is a significant one, for reasons that I've spelled out repeatedly. It's possible to come up with a new sound while avoiding overblows--Sugar Blue and Paul Delay are the best examples--but it's much easier to sound new, to distinguish yourself from the inherited weight of tradition, if overblows are a part of your repertoire. Not to put too fine a point on it, but none of the guys on my Top-10 list is an overblower, and I don't think anybody in my Second-10 list is either. (I'm sure Billy Branch and Magic Dick can hit overblows if asked to, but overblows aren't an obvious part of their playing and I don't believe they've recorded any tunes that use them. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not sure about Paul Delay.) They represent Tradition with a capital T. I have no doubt that Jason will have worked his way onto one of those lists before he's through, and there's surely a strong argument for him belonging on the Second-10 list right now, in 2009. Overblows aren't ALL of that, but they're a major part of that: not their presence, but the seamless way in which he's made them a part of his (new) style.
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2009 4:23 AM
|
toddlgreene
172 posts
Nov 21, 2009
7:45 AM
|
Good points, all around. Now, I for one don't think a player these days MUST do any one technique or not, be it OBs or whatever, to be considered a good, modern player. It's the overall end product, i.e., HOW DOES IT SOUND?, not how did he/she get there? How many guitarists, harmonicists, or any other instrumentalists that are condsidered 'good players' on their instruments do we hold to such a high regard:'Oh, he plays awesome melodies, beautiful tone, good use of chords, positions, etc...BUT, I didn't detect an overblow, so he gets The Gong'. Yes, now that I'm aware of them, I will make it my goal to learn and master them. Will I ALWAYS utilize them? Time will tell. Should I or anyone else be measured as a good player or not based on the use of this or any other single technique? No. I don't INSIST that someone plays chromatically. Yes, it opens up new doors, but the old doors got you from point A to point B.
----------
~Todd L. Greene, Devout Pedestrian
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2009 7:46 AM
|
HarpNinja
32 posts
Nov 21, 2009
1:55 PM
|
To piggy-back on Kudzurunner...Is it the technique of the overblow that is pushing modern playing or is it an increased awareness of the role of music theory?
I don't really have an answer (Is there?), but I've noticed that most OB players are players applying working theory first, and the OBs come second as a way to use increased musical knowledge.
Or maybe the OBs lead to theory and a different blues harp sound? The thing with OBs is that they are the "missing notes" in a system where, from 2nd position, there are few - if any - "wrong" notes to hit during a blues. Learning/using OBs maybe forces a different perspective on playing blues.
Regardless, the wealth of harp-theory that has hit the world in the last ten years has been insane. To me, "modern" blues harp is all about a more refined (?) sound that is based off of treating the harp as a musical instrument rather than a niche instrument.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
arzajac
81 posts
Nov 21, 2009
3:00 PM
|
Were harps customized/optimized for overblowing back in the day? No, certainly not the the degree they are today. Is that the reason why Overblows weren't used by Adam's all-time top 10 players?
If that is so, and we could go back in time and present them all with custom harps, how many would use OBs for the sake of using OBs and how many would use them because they add another element to what the instrument can deliver?
|
Buddha
1186 posts
Nov 21, 2009
3:28 PM
|
The older harps were actually much closer to "custom" quality than the current harps
----------
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
|
HarpNinja
34 posts
Nov 21, 2009
7:21 PM
|
arzajac - does it matter what they would have done?
The only variable that can be controlled is whether or not you are/will use OBs. I don't see how a OB is any different than any other technique.
Back to the topic:
If I decided never to learn how to do a trill, would it matter? Do I have to learn to tongue block? Should I be concerned with my reaction to my playing or that of others?
My life would be much easier being a trad. blues player in MN. If I went the old school route and was subservient to my harp playing peers, I would have a lot more harp friends here in the local scene. Most non-harp players don't really get the difference between traditional and not traditional, so the click to pursue would be harp peers.
However, I'd much rather blaze my own trail. There are no rules except for the rules I set for myself. My favorite YouTubes ever regarding the blues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81jrr3Dxpr4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suodyor8qH4
I sleep easy at night knowing that for a twenty-something harp player, I can mimic what the typical harp player in town can do, but they can't mimic me. That may not get me invited to the local harp blowout (I think you have to be 50+ anyways, lol), but I am going to play what I need to play and not what others think I should play.
What makes guys like Adam, Chris M., Jason Ricci, Paul de Lay, William Clarke, James Cotton, etc. great? They all sound/play different. They learned the fundamentals and then learned to do their own thing.
Musicians spend too much time learning the vocab of others verbatim. Does it have its place, yes. But that isn't art. You have to make a riff your own and do it your way. If that means being an OB player, than fine. However, I think judging a player on one technique is lame. Judging in general means you're not listening anymore anyways.
FWIW, I have decided NOT to learn many of the solos I like most simply because I love the passage enough that I just want to listen to it and love it. I don't want to take the magic out. If anything, I want to use the inspiration to try and create my own.
Besides quoting part of a Clarke solo when my band does Hideaway, I can't think of any instances where I insert someone else's lead verbatim into any lead I play. Maybe I leech an idea, but I never copy/paste part of someone else's solo beyond the occasional riff. And I never solo thinking riff to riff. I am off topic now.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
apskarp
55 posts
Nov 21, 2009
10:56 PM
|
Some thoughts from my experience:
Every time I have learned a new technique with harp it has lead me to new musical directions. Was it TB, bending, chords, OB's or OD's. In this sense I think that learning a new technique actually means that you are opening new doors or directions which you can choose - BUT they also shape how you see and understand the world and thus affect also the decision where you actually want to go!
For me this has been a big revelation. It isn't so that first you have goals and then you just try to reach them. Actually it's very much the other way around: What you reach defines what you will want to reach in the future. So learning OBs for example means that there is a great possibility that you are shifting the way you relate to the music too. In this case it's even more so because there will be totally new notes available for you to play.
When I learned the OD 7 two days ago, it immediately shifted something in how I relate to the music. Yesterday I cultivated the learning so that I can reach it every time I try to. So I have been experimenting and finding new passages which has led to more jazzier style of playing. I mean I'm not very skilled in it, but the feeling I create for my playing is totally new.
|
Sirsucksalot
86 posts
Nov 22, 2009
1:10 AM
|
I don't like how they sound.
|
Andrew
756 posts
Nov 22, 2009
2:36 AM
|
Sirsucksalot, am I right in guessing that you only discovered them recently? If so, I can assure you that they sound better and better with practise (and if the gaps are close enough)
----------
Kinda hot in these rhinos!
|
