tmf714
2202 posts
Nov 25, 2013
5:52 PM
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"Any other players famous players do this?"
Yep-Mark Wenner-
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boris_plotnikov
904 posts
Nov 26, 2013
2:07 PM
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tmf714
All your favourite guys are tongue blockers. I don't tilt while tongue block, and don't think it's necessary for tongue blocking in any way.
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Excuse my bad English.
My videos.
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tmf714
2204 posts
Nov 26, 2013
2:16 PM
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I agree Boris-I ALWAYS use the tip of my tongue,never the flat part,so it would have no advantage for me personally.
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mr_so&so
763 posts
Nov 26, 2013
5:25 PM
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I'm a tongue blocker, and don't tilt. But after reading this thread, I gave the tilt and lip block a try and now I'm a believer. It's nice and relaxed, and very similar to single-note tongue block in feel actually. It does set you up for good tone. Now I'm not going to switch TB to LB any time soon, but I now know what to do if I want to mix things up. BTW, I want to confirm that Dave Barrett does indeed espouse the tilt when tongue blocking. I will experiment with this in my practice to see if it gives any advantage. I also agree that the LB should be considered a separate embouchure from the lip purse. Enlightening thread!
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timeistight
1429 posts
Nov 26, 2013
6:10 PM
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If lick purse and lip block are separate embouchures, then top of tongue, tip of tongue and underside of tongue (yes, some people do that) should be too.
If we count the Scott Albert slant, we're up to six embouchures already and we haven't even considered the nose players!
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harpdude61
1910 posts
Nov 26, 2013
6:33 PM
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Thanks for chiming in mr so&so! Great post!
Like I said earlier, I'm one of those lip blockers that tongue blocks only on splits. I remember from other threads that several on this forum do this.
I have no trouble moving between single or double notes and the splits, and my tilt stays the same. The top of my tongue right behind the tip is what touches the harp.
I can bend a little with side TBing but not well enough to use and my tone drops off. I know I know..have not practiced it enough.
So&so's post makes me ask...Can we hear from some full time tongue blockers about their tilt of the harp? CUrious to know.
I bet the OP had know idea his post would turn into such a deep and informing thread.
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Jehosaphat
617 posts
Nov 26, 2013
8:34 PM
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Ah Embouchures.
I don't lip purse nor lip block.I don't tongue block either except for octaves and splits etc.
I have an open mouth ,lips top and bottom cover around half of the covers and the mouth gap opening is over 3 holes. I single notes out by throat constriction to direct the air flow( and do bends)
Something new to add to the stew.
Throat blocking!
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harpdude61
1913 posts
Nov 26, 2013
8:49 PM
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Jehosaphat...hmmm..if what you say is true, you can go from a single note to a chord without any movement in the mouth, lips or jaw. Are you saying you could play a simple 3 hole melody by aiming the air flow from the throat, even though several holes may be unblocked by lip or tongue? How in the world do you bend?
Guys this is a new one on me. Tell me more, tell me more!
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tmf714
2206 posts
Nov 27, 2013
6:50 AM
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Sorry Jehosaphat-you cant play single notes just by using your throat-there has to be a corresponding movement of the tongue-try it-try moving your throat isolating the tongue.
A video is the only way you could sway me.
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isaacullah
2580 posts
Nov 27, 2013
10:32 AM
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I tilt, but not at 45 degrees. Probably somewhere between 20 and 30. I never thought about it until I read this thread. The tilt must have come naturally to me as a part of the Lip Block embouchure that I've made my main playing style. Like others have mentioned, the tilt locks the single hole in the pocket, and lets me have my lips totally relaxed.
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
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mr_so&so
765 posts
Nov 27, 2013
10:49 AM
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I should add an addendum to my previous post. After a bit more experimenting with lip blocking, and comparing with tongue blocking, I notice that my jaw is more open (dropped) when tongue blocking. Maybe this is because of my lack of practice with lip blocking, but it's something I noticed. I can't open my mouth as much with the LB without losing my single note or adding lip tension.
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Last Edited by mr_so&so on Nov 27, 2013 10:50 AM
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Grey Owl
396 posts
Nov 27, 2013
11:20 AM
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Here is a recent video of Howard in action with a good side view of his embouchure. He tilts somewhat less than 45 degrees.
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Grey Owl YouTube
Grey Owl Abstract Photos
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Brendan Power
385 posts
Nov 28, 2013
9:11 AM
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I'm with Joe Spiers: there is no absolute right or wrong way to hold a harp. I use an up-tilt and couldn't play without it, but I've seen others get great sound with the harp horizontal, or even down-tilted. Scott Albert Johnson has his harp almost vertical and gets around pretty fast.
I think it's a bit like with guitarists: there are so many variations on how to hold a pick, but they all work for individual players. Some great players hold the pick in a very relaxed, almost floppy-wrist manner, others have their forearm and wrist rigid. Some hold it between thumb and forefinger, others between thumb and second finger, others almost clenched in their fist...
They all work, and so do different harp embouchures. But certainly if someone is struggling with speed or accuracy I always suggest to try the up-tilt style.
Last Edited by Brendan Power on Nov 28, 2013 9:13 AM
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Frank
3405 posts
Nov 28, 2013
9:19 AM
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Jehosaphat
618 posts
Nov 28, 2013
12:49 PM
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Amazing how we can self delude ourselves.
The comments above re my stated 'unique' embouchure
made me re examine what it is i am actually doing.
@TMF was right,my tongue does the channeling of the airflow,very subtle movement but it is there.
Damm!;-)
But my bends are done(mostly) via throat constriction
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blueswannabe
374 posts
Dec 08, 2013
7:22 AM
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This is a bunch of baloney, frankly. I saw Sugar Ray last night and saw that he tilts the back of the harp (the non-mouth piece side) downward. Below is a video of Big Walter, who tilts the harp downward. No one can argue with BW's tone or Sugar Ray's. Tilting the harp upward for me is awkard and uncomfortable. You have to go with your own mouth shape and jaw configuration. There is no right way.
Begin watching at 5:45.
@Frank. i could no have said it better.
Here's is Junior Wells. You can see at 2:19, he has a downward tilt
Here is Sonny Boy Williamson at 00:59, downward tilt.
Here is Little Walter at 1:30, downward Tilt.
And of course, here is James Cotton, with downward tilt (non-mouthpiece side tilting down), at 2:14
All of these legends tilt downward. They had no computers to compare notes, no forums, no harmonica instruction books. They probably gave it no thought. They likely used a technique that was just plain comfortable. If you asked them, they would look at you cross-eyed.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Dec 08, 2013 1:52 PM
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Big I
10 posts
Dec 08, 2013
9:46 AM
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Im so glad I found this topic. I have been playing about 4 months using my right hand to hold the harmonica. When I found out a few days ago that this can hinder your wah wah's I started with my left. The only problem was I couldn't hit my single notes anymore. I also was tilting the harmonica down long ways so that the holes were diaganol to make them bigger and help hit those single notes. I was getting frustrated playing with the left hand because I was just not able to get those single notes like I did the other way. So I tried the tilt from back to front and voila> Im definatly a believer.
Last Edited by Big I on Dec 08, 2013 9:47 AM
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harpdude61
1915 posts
Dec 09, 2013
2:33 AM
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Wow! AS good as these harmonica legends are in these videos, imagine how what could have been had they tlted the harp properly. Scary!!
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boris_plotnikov
913 posts
Dec 09, 2013
10:14 AM
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Again!!! All legends are tongue blockers (possible except Junior Wells, but anyway he have almost no techique). With tongue blocking tilting (or not) doesn't matter. It's very important for lip blocking.
About tilting down. I know some players including Mikhail Vladimirov (my teacher, he won WHF jazz contest in 2009) he tilt harmonica down.
I think tilting harmonica down can give you a relaxed position (compared to non-tilting). BUT it make using jaw side movement (like Brendan Power) less controllable, at least for me and this is the reason I don't recommend it to my students.
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Excuse my bad English.
My videos.
Last Edited by boris_plotnikov on Dec 09, 2013 11:08 AM
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easyreeder
445 posts
Dec 18, 2013
9:39 PM
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I don't tilt the harp (at least not so's I notice). But a few months ago I took on a student who had suffered a stroke and has right-side paralysis. She can't feel much on the right side of her face. So far, tongue blocking has been impossible for her, but she's also struggled getting single notes with lip blocking. After seeing this thread I told her to tilt the harp up radically and see if it helped. The results were immediate, and positive, and allowed us to move on to where she can actually play single note melodies. I'm sold that it's a good tool to have on hand, but also that not everybody needs to do it.
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Frank
3546 posts
Dec 24, 2013
4:51 AM
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Johnny being defiant and tilts the opposite direction :)
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colman
285 posts
Dec 26, 2013
8:14 AM
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I tilt down a little bit only playing above the 5 hole and also cover the bottom half of the hole with my tongue.does any one else do this half cover thing.for me it gives more air control and speed in movement...
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harpwrench
742 posts
Dec 26, 2013
8:31 AM
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Sounds like you're using the U-block as used by Norton Buffalo and others. I used it for the upper register for a little while, when still figuring out how to tongue block up there.
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1847
1428 posts
Dec 26, 2013
9:55 AM
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norton used a variety of embouchure's
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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harpwrench
743 posts
Dec 26, 2013
10:01 AM
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Yeah a lot of players do lol
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