Harp2swing
130 posts
Jun 19, 2014
6:49 PM
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Man if I ever get this many posts I'll know I've made
it.
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walterharp
1419 posts
Jun 19, 2014
8:01 PM
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Hey Walter Tore.. I disagree with you to a point.
Yes staying with what is safe is part of surviving as a species, but what makes humans separate from other animals is trying new things, and remembering what works and does not...
on the other hand the things lab rats get at teen years, they prefer throughout life, which suggests that the adventuresome years are limited and explains oldies stations all over radio and why some on this forum insist that insist that there is only one REAL way do do things.
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12gagedan
305 posts
Jun 19, 2014
9:46 PM
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Our species is hard-wired for two things: suckling, and not stepping off a cliff. Now, James Cameron's epic "Terminator 2: Judgement Day" would have us believe that war is in our very nature, as was suggested a few posts above. However, I think what you're really talking about is natural selection, perhaps as it relates to blues music. As we all know, natural selection is all about how an organism reacts to stressors. In this case, I'd argue that the solo in question puts such stress on the listener, that it may actually drive the evolution (or destruction) of that player. But, maybe it's like Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse, "Opinions vary".
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12gagedan's YouTube Channel
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Ted Burke
29 posts
Jun 19, 2014
10:00 PM
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We argue that blues is a living art form that expresses the emotions in the truest , rawest sense, but things that cannot adapt to changes in the environment, climate wise or artistically, are not alive at all, they are dead, at best relics one views in a museum with no real sense of why anyone thought it was so hot back in the day. Blues standards like "Scratch My Back" are things to be messed up, re-thought, taken apart and reconstructed; what Jason is doing is bringing a new sound to the amplified harp, and to my ears, it works splendidly because JR is unfailingly musical in his playing; the effects are sharp and tuneful, they have a compelling tone, they are, in effect, new colors that Jason has brought to the table. Little Walter, I imagine, created a stink when he put his harp right on the mic to create that classic sound; the technology has certainly advanced by leaps and bounds and it would be ridiculous, let me say idiotic, to insist that blues songs , classic or otherwise, have to be sacrosanct. You might not like the sound JR produced here,but it is a fact that what he does with the blues--speed them up, turn them inside out, incorporate a cogent slew of ideas from other sources, new and old--has helped keep blues alive, vital, relevant as a means of expressing the nerve and vibe of being alive in unsure times. Go Jason!
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JustFuya
296 posts
Jun 19, 2014
11:08 PM
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Anyone who thinks the classic blues are dead must have a heart or hearing impairment. I love LW because he took the blues into boogie. That's it. It hurts my head sometimes but I appreciate it and I took it to Rock n Roll. If I want to soothe my soul I'll listen to SB II. Not because it's easy to play (it's not). It is soulful.
That's all I want from a harp. Feeling. Not 3 notes per second. These pioneers had blue in their veins. We can entertain but can we bring tears to eyes? YES! But not from articulation or mimicry.
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hooktool
142 posts
Jun 20, 2014
12:03 AM
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There's a different species living on Harp-L, then. They are generally loving the effects and laughing at the neanderthals on MBH. :)
I dig the tune, because I know the source, and because it makes me listen. Listening often leads to learning something.
And I agree that no way is the blues dying, or dead. Doesn't mean there's not lot's more music to listen to.
John
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Libertad
261 posts
Jun 20, 2014
2:20 AM
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I have to say that I think this thread has evolved into one of the most interesting for a while.
No one said 'Classic Blues' is dead! What some of us have argued is the the Blues will evolve, so that it is as relevant now as it was in the day. Its not something that should be moth balled and bought out to celebrate the past. Blues in the 30's was a reflection of life at that time, it helped people express themselves, come to terms with the shit that was happening in their lives. It can be the same again, but 70 years down the line, if it is going to be relevant to modern audiences it will reflect their experience and in addition draw from its rich heritage. Listen to songs like 'The Way I Hurt Myself' ' The Worlds Just Wrong' 'My Head is a Bad Neighbourhood' if you want feeling.
This isn't a Police state, if you just want to sit in a dark room and get off listening to SBII go for it. If the mood is right, I will do it myself. You can't fail but be moved by it. But there are modern artists that do the same, make us sad, make us happy, make us think about life and for me Jason is one of them. If you just see him as a three notes per second guy, you are really missing out!
Last Edited by Libertad on Jun 20, 2014 2:23 AM
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JInx
805 posts
Jun 20, 2014
2:40 AM
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there is something special about a properly cooked chicken, fleshy still and good to eat
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Harptime
61 posts
Jun 20, 2014
4:22 AM
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Many posts on this thread. Only one comment has disturbed me in a profound way...
Larry sez: "Sorry, been reading about effective human communication lately to improve myself"
does this mean that Larry is in transformation from Iceman to Niceman? not sure I like the tone of this development :-)
WB
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Warren Bee
Marketing & Harmonica Raconteur
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The Iceman
1747 posts
Jun 20, 2014
5:05 AM
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Libertad makes a good statement regarding classic blues and its potential for relevancy to modern audiences.
In the early 60's, Miles Davis had similar feelings towards jazz. He felt it was stagnant and no longer relevant to the changes happening in the current world around him.
What Miles did was to refocus on the role of the rhythm section and bring in new influences he heard happening in the 60's all around him...i.e., a heavier bottom end, funky street rhythm, electric keyboards and eventually guitar, bass lines that felt comfortable grooving on the I chord for extended time periods, studio special effects and editing, and then floating his signature trumpet tone over this new mix.
(He even tried to contemporize his sound through a wah-wah pedal, but decided this wasn't effective after a while, as the effect proved to "date" his sound as time moved on).
What he eventually accomplished was to change the direction of music a few times...by attempting to update static jazz with contemporary influences, he helped create ambient, jazz-rock and fusion genres.
I note that this was accomplished not by adding effects to his trumpet sound, but by bringing the most current trend to the rhythm section.
Perhaps this proven success formula may be applied to blues to evolve it to our modern era.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 20, 2014 5:07 AM
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walterharp
1421 posts
Jun 20, 2014
6:06 AM
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Miles played his band like an instrument. His main effects were the synthesized keyboards he added.. Zawinul in particular... but Hancock et al. as well went that way
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The Iceman
1750 posts
Jun 20, 2014
6:42 AM
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It all began when Miles had Hancock play a celeste.
Next, Miles was influenced by the sound Zawinul created in Cannonball Adderley's band used in the song "Mercy Mercy Mercy".
Then, one day, Herbie showed up for a session and was surprised to find no acoustic piano. "What am I supposed to play?" asked Herbie. Miles pointed to the Fender Rhodes in the corner and said "Play that."
The next evolution was when he had Ron Carter play an electric bass.
Eventually he did the "radical (at the time)" move by bringing in Joe Beck to play electric guitar on a tune.
This was the beginning of the direction change.
So, one step at a time, he was bringing contemporary sounds into his concepts.
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The Iceman
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walterharp
1423 posts
Jun 20, 2014
7:30 AM
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I was sort of trying to stay with the more specific original point of contention in this thread, using electronic effects, and that is why I singled out the keyboards. Putting the Rhodes in is pretty electronic I guess, though I am so used to the tone it sound fairly organic to me. On the other hand the electric keyboard from Corea and programs Zawinul used for synthesized music were the electronic effects and Hancock also went that way (while solidly holding on to acoustic piano over the years as well).
I don't buy that electric guitar was at all radical for jazz.. it had been foundational for at least a decade before (e.g. Wes Montgomery). Playing it with more distortion and effects was though....
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The Iceman
1751 posts
Jun 20, 2014
7:52 AM
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The time period we are discussing w/Miles was before synthesizers and programming. Zawinul played electric rhodes and organ for Miles in these seminal recordings.
The synthesizer and programming aspect did not enter Mile's music until his final electric phase, aside from Cedric Lawson playing an early synth in 1971.
The uniqueness of Joe Beck's electric guitar addition was that it was not played "jazzy" like Wes Montgomery, but had a different role altogether. It doubled the bass line in Mile's search for a heavier bottom to the sound.
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The Iceman
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Tuckster
1429 posts
Jun 20, 2014
9:24 AM
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Shout out to Mooncat- There wouldn't be this many responses if we didn't love you! Without experimentation there is no failure. You can play it safe and never fail,but where's the fun in that?
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dougharps
648 posts
Jun 20, 2014
10:16 AM
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No one can please all of the people, all of the time.
I wish we could discuss what and why we like or dislike aspects of a performance rather than characterize it as good or bad according to some arbitrary personal standard.
Our responses to music/art may tell us more about each other than about the performance.
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Doug S.
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Goldbrick
497 posts
Jun 20, 2014
3:11 PM
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I believe Gary Burton and Larry Coryell should get as much credit as Davis. But -as was stated-opinions vary
Listen to Coryell on this
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rosco1
45 posts
Jun 20, 2014
7:30 PM
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I don’t mind this solo at ALL. But, hey,even if you hate it - it’s one solo on one song at one gig. BFD.
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BAG
147 posts
Jun 20, 2014
8:45 PM
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I gotta big grin on my face after another Moon Cat performance. nuf said
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Twitter ~ BossoBrewingCo
Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/bag-5
YouTube Channe: SummitPorter
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wolfkristiansen
288 posts
Jun 20, 2014
10:09 PM
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So-- I don't usually jump in for posts like this. But for me, the hardcore blues fan (my friends say Nazi, not fan)-- I liked this video, and Moon Cat's playing. There are so many good things about it-- the bluesy notes, the funky rhythm on the harp, the unison work with the harp and guitar, the singing, the backup band-- what's not to like? The tone is not what I'd have gone for, but it was a valid experiment. I like listening to people who are always searching for something new. It might not always work, but the trying is worth it.
About bad-mouthing someone, you naysayers might have heard the advice my aunt gave me when I was young. She said, "If you don't have something good to say about somebody....
sit right down here and tell me all about it. Joke. I don't like bad-mouthing people.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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JustFuya
299 posts
Jun 21, 2014
10:16 AM
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I thought I had read an earlier post in this thread that stated or implied that Classic blues was dead.
Anyway, when I mentioned 3 notes per second I did not have Jason in mind. He can pull it off with feeling and I applaud anyone who can do that.
I admit I'm in a rut w/ SBII. He just happens to be the subject of my current course of woodshed study. It's subject to change.
I still R&R (w/ some country) in a band setting. I think you have to do so at dance venues and I enjoy group practice and stage time with them very much.
But there is no contention in my woodshed and I have full control over the playlist.
Last Edited by JustFuya on Jun 21, 2014 10:17 AM
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